Thread Number: 22958
Sebo Customer Service...
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Post# 256967   11/19/2013 at 19:13 (3,782 days old) by Vacuumfreeeke ()        

I had a problem with genuine Sebo bags separating from the plastic collar... these were brand new genuine Sebo bags that I got from Govacuum.com and this is the third time this has happened... The bags aren't even halfway full when it happens, so the problem is quite annoying... dirt gets all over the HEPA filter and bag chamber and I have to clean it out with another machine (I use the Dyson for things like this)...

This what I sent:

Hi, Sebo...

I just had another episode of a recurring problem with genuine Sebo bags and I was wondering if they have been recalled due to lack of quality... I'm spoken to several other owners and they've had the same trouble I'm experiencing. The problem is that the paper bag separates from the plastic collar before the bag is even halfway full... dust gets all over the bag chamber and HEPA filter... I'll include a picture with this e-mail so that you can see what I am talking about....

I'm not a regular "vacuum illiterate" consumer... I collect vacuums... I've been in love with them for my entire life and they are my one true passion so there is no way I'm installing the bag incorrectly. I have 64 machines, so I'm pretty adept at installing bags. This has happened 3 times now and I've spoken to several other collectors and they said they have had the same experience. The machine I'm using is a Windsor Sensor S12, which as you know is virtually a Sebo Automatic X4 that isn't as pretty and has the manual height adjust...

So, I was wondering if there was a fix or if there were better quality bags... I just don't expect this with genuine supplies! If I'd been using DVC or some other aftermarket product, it would be understandable... My Miele S7 bags never do this and they fill from the top much like the Sebo/Windsor bags...

The machine is such a good quality machine so it's a shame to have this for a problem... as a matter of fact, I just reviewed it for Epinions and if you are interested, I'll paste a copy of that review at the end of this e-mail....

Thank you,

Bobby, Orlando, Florida

Review of the Sebo G1/Windsor Sensor S12 by Bobby

This vacuum cleaner is one of the best built and well designed vacuums I know of. I'll preface that by saying that I collect vacuums and own 64 of them... I've loved them since I was a kid so I've been pretty exposed to them for my whole life.

Vacuums like this are typically found in hotels, and there's a good reason for this... they stand up to the use and and abuse! There's another version of this machine called the Sebo X4 that is a lot prettier and the only real difference is that it has an automatic, computer controlled electronic height adjustment. Personally, I feel that the manual height adjustment of this model is better, because the user is always in control. This version isn't quite as beautiful, it is more utilitarian, but it still gets the job done.

When I bought this vacuum, I already had about 55 machines, but I wanted one for such a long time so when I noticed it locally for 75 dollars, I snapped it up. It sells new for around 600 dollars, and I never pay that much for a vacuum since I have so many already and know that most of them are over priced when new.

In no particular order, these are some of the stellar features of this vacuum:

This is a bagged upright vacuum that uses a clean air design (bypass system). That means that the dirt goes through the hose and then then into the bag and only clean air passes through the fan. The other system would be a dirty air or fan first design, and those machines can be damaged by large or hard objects going through the fan.

The first thing that impressed me about this machine is the build quality. Even the handle feels solid (and comfortable). There is no play in any of the parts and the entire machine just feels really well built. When I get a used machine to add to my vacuum artillery, the first thing I do is take it apart and clean it out. When took the cover off this machine to examine the inside where the motor is, I actually gasped! There was not ONE SPECK of dust in the motor chamber... not one, and remember, I bought this machine used. Even if we assume that the seller opened the machine up and cleaned out the motor chamber before he sold it to me (which I seriously doubt), after regular use by me for a couple of years, there still isn't any dust anywhere near the motor inside the machine. Vacuums virtually always have dust around the motor, but the reason this one doesn't is because the main air filter is in the bag chamber and it precedes the motor. Typical vacuums only have a thin piece of foam before the motor and the good exhaust filter is at the end of the air flow path... after the motor. This machine has the main filter before the motor, and the thin piece of foam after the motor (only to catch carbon dust emitted by the motor itself). That means the motor will last longer and really speaks to the overall well thought out design of the machine.

Several other wonderful features exist on this vacuum as well. Not the least of which is that the brushroll can be pulled straight out from a trap door in the side of the nozzle... that means no screws or bottom plates to fool with, so cleaning or replacing the brushroll is a snap. There is a trap door port on the bottom of the machine for easy removal of clogs. Not to mention that the entire body of the machine can be separated from the nozzle base with one button for easy removal of clogs. The handle, cord, and switch can also be replaced by lifting one latch and pulling straight up. It's really that easy! The hose can be completely removed by pinching two little clips and pulling straight up, again making clog removal a breeze. There is a light to tell when the machine is clogged or when the bag is full, and another to tell when the brush is too worn to be effective.

The wheels are rubber coated. The machine weighs 17 pounds and is a dream to push. The hose is 6 feet long and even though it is a stretch hose, it doesn't fight the user by snapping back during use nearly as badly as many others do. The cord is 40 feet long, the cord wraps are nice and beefy, and the bottom cord hook is the quick release. The bottom cord hook also contains the carrying handle. There is no cord clip on this machine because it isn't necessary. The cord comes right out of the machine at the top of the handle (where it should), so it is designed not to need a cord clip! The fact that they would build something like that right into the design of the machine really shows how well thought out this cleaner is!

This machine uses two belts, but they are designed not to stretch or break and it has a belt protection system built in where the brush will shut off if something too large is picked up. The belt is designed to last the life of the machine! That's the next best thing to having a completely beltless vacuum like the Kenmore Direct Drive I just reviewed here.

The power switch is a nice solid rocker switch right on the hand grip where it belongs. The height adjust knob is on the side of the nozzle and very easy to manipulate. The handle release pedal is easy to use (some are really hard to press like the one on the Eureka Smart Vac) and it has a setting that makes it really versatile. There is a slider that will actually change the stop position of the handle so that the machine can either be laid flat to the floor for getting under furniture (and the machine has a really slim profile to further facilitate this ability), or the handle will stop halfway between the operating position and the completely flat position so that the nozzle may be raised for going over thresholds! Awesome!

This machine comes with a built in wand that is a snap to use. The wand has a handle which is like a smaller version of the regular handle (in other words, it is very good... solid, comfortable, quality feel) and to use the wand and hose, that must just be picked up.... no dials to adjust, nothing to plug in, just grab and go! It comes with an upholstery tool, dusting brush, and long extension wand. An extra long hose, turbo tool, extra extension wands, and straight suction bare floor tool can all be purchased separately if desired. If one doesn't want to use the wand and just wants to use the hose end instead, all they have to do is just pick up the hose. Just lift it out of the wand and leave the wand nested in machine. It's really that easy! To put it back, just simply stick the hose back in the the machine and turn the machine on for a few seconds. It will automatically be drawn back into the wand in its normal position!

This machine isn't loud at all... it isn't exactly silent, but as far as vacuums go, it has a rather pleasant sound. If you are used to the horrendous screech of cheaper machines, the pleasant throaty, quality sound of this machine will be music to your ears.

This machine has a metal sole plate which is a relatively rare thing for vacuums of this day and age. Notable examples of machines that also have this are Commercial Sanitaires, Simplicitys/Riccars, Royals, Kirbys, a few Dysons, a few Panasonics, and the amazing Miele S7 upright. Otherwise, for the most part, sole plates are made of plastic and they can and do break and machines with metal sole plates actually glide over the carpet more smoothly than those with plastic!

As previously stated, this machine uses a bag. That is actually a positive thing, and not a drawback. Bagless machines are just too messy and repair prone. The bag on this machine is HUGE at 1.4 gallons. The bag actually attaches to the bag door rather than to the inside of the machine and it fills from the top instead of the side so the entire bag can be used. The bag is easy to change and the machine lets you know when it is time to do that. A light will flash initially, and if no action is taken, the machine will actually turn off! The bags also have a plastic cap that can be snapped onto the opening after removal from the machine so the dust doesn't puff up.

Two air filters are available for this machine and they actually come with the box of bags. They are long tower filters and they easily install right in the bag chamber. One is called an S class filter and the other is a true Hepa filter. They both work well, but the Hepa filter does a little better job. The S class filter looks like a long sock, and the HEPA filter looks like a paper accordion. The bag chamber will not close (so the machine will not run) if a filter is not in place.

Performance:

The suction and airflow on this machine is tremendous. However, the agitation is weak. The brushroll bristles are not very stiff or long. The thing to remember is that this vacuum is meant for commercial spaces. Most of those have thin flat carpet (and so does my apartment so it is fine for me). If you need a machine with really aggressive agitation to groom thicker carpet and get deeply embedded dirt out, this isn't the machine for you, there are several other better options (I recommend a Simplicity, Riccar, or Miele's AMAZING S7 instead if aggressive agitation is your primary concern). It works very well on surface litter, and will perform adequately for most applications. Since this machine is designed to be used commercially, it really shines in the quality and easy maintenance departments... it leaves a bit to be desired with brushroll performance.

Ok, so is there anything negative about this vacuum?

Yes! Quite a few things actually, but I still love it, so take these with a grain of salt if you will.

The handle release pedal, while sturdy and well designed, is on the right side of the back of the machine instead of the left... virtually all other vacuums have it on the left side, so this is quite annoying. The only other machines I can think of with it on the right are the Fantom Wildcat, Hoover Lightweight Platinum bagged and a few cheap Eurekas... why would anyone ever do that?

The carrying handle, while in a place that balances the center of gravity nicely is not comfortable at all. It actually hurts my hand when I try to use it.

There is no way to turn the brushroll off for use on bare floors. As a matter of fact, this machine is too "smart" for its own good... if you try to use it even on the lowest height setting on a bare floor, it will falsely trip the feature that activates when the brushroll bristles are too worn to be effective. Cleaning bare floors with this machine requires the purchase of an extra wand and bare floor tool.

The brushroll doesn't stop when the handle is in the upright position.

This machine only comes with one on board extension wand, and there are several times when I need the longer reach two would provide.

The dusting brush is awful. It is almost like an afterthought. There is no place built into the machine for storage of this, so they made an auxiliary clip that snaps onto the handle to store the dusting brush. It is always in the way and the dusting brush falls off the machine incessantly. The dusting brush is also a weird triangular shape that will not get right into tight spaces like a round one would (like the back of a book shelf right next to the wall). The plastic part of the dusting brush protrudes too much so the bristles just can't reach those tight spaces. The bristles of the dusting brush are also poor quality plastic and they actually get sucked inward toward the opening during use. This doesn't happen as badly with round dusting brushes.

There is no way to adjust the suction level of the machine. Typically, even machines that don't have a way to adjust the motor speed at least have a suction bleeder relief valve. This one does not.... it's full blast or nothing.

The hose comes out of the machine toward the top and the machine will readily fall over when using the attachments. I've taken to laying it flat on the floor whenever I use the attachments. The good news is that the machine is so well built that it will likely survive the fall (though heaven help whatever it hits!).

Another way the machine annoyed me is that one time I went to clean out the vacant apartment of a friend and neighbor who moved several hours away. I brought this machine (which is where I learned how poorly it grooms thicker carpets) The bag filled up while I was over there and the machine would not continue running! If it had been any other machine, I could have just finished that one room and changed the bag when I got home, but this vacuum actually required me to go all the way back to my place and dig out a new bag just to finish one room! I was so mad that I wanted to throw it down the three flights of stairs I had to climb to get to the apartment! Of course it's so well built that it probably wouldn't have gotten a scratch, but alas, I didn't do that! Just another example of this machine being too "smart" for is own good.

Final thoughts:

This solid piece of German engineering is made to stand the test of time. It doesn't have any fun features like dirt sensors or a headlight, and doesn't groom very well, but it's a great all arounder and definitely worth consideration.

PS... Hoover has now copied the original Sebo design and have their own version of this machine called the Hoover Insight. It looks almost identical and has an identical feature set... I've not put my hands on one yet, so I can't speak from experience. I will say that Hoover is now owned by the parent company of Dirt Devil (TTI) and they have a reputation for making poor quality machines... based on that alone, I'd steer clear of the copycat and go for the original Sebo (or Windsor)... As a vacuum connoisseur, I generally run away from anything that TTI has their hands on... You'd be well advised to do the same if you care about quality more than price.




This was the response:

Dear Bobby ( NOTE He used Mr. and then my last name there, but I don't want my full name plastered all over the internet for no reason),

Thank you for writing to SEBO America! I enjoyed reading your e-mail, and I apologize for the problem that you've experienced. In response, I have the following points for your consideration:

1) Of course, the problem you experienced is not supposed to happen and it would certainly be frustrating. I hope you don't experience it again. In an effort to fix the problem, I would like to send you a SEBO Service Box and a Filter Bag Box, free of charge (these two items contain a total of 20 bags). Please send me your shipping address, and I will immediately send them to you via UPS.

2) You told me that your bags were genuine. Please be aware, however, that there are now numerous counterfeit SEBO bags on the market. This is an unfortunate reality that is a source of "headaches" from time to time. After you receive the 20 vacuum bags I'm sending you, please dispose of the other bags you currently possess.

3) Thank you for writing a nice review about SEBO vacuums. I really appreciate that you took the time to share your thoughts on our machines.

In closing, please send me your shipping address as soon as possible, so we can fix this situation right away.

Respectfully,

John van Leuven, CEO
SEBO America, LLC



That's pretty good customer service if you ask me... very generous, though I'm sure my bags are genuine!


Post# 256968 , Reply# 1   11/19/2013 at 19:16 (3,782 days old) by Vacuumfreeeke ()        

These look genuine, no?



Post# 256970 , Reply# 2   11/19/2013 at 19:54 (3,782 days old) by Jaker15 (Meridian, ID)        
Well.....

jaker15's profile picture
You do know that black market companies are VERY clever and sophisticated.... they do look genuine, though. I'd like to hope that the ones they're sending you are the Real Deal and don't fall apart like those ones.

Post# 256999 , Reply# 3   11/20/2013 at 03:30 (3,781 days old) by Vintagerepairer (England)        
Well done.

In the UK Sebo are not known for their willingness to assist consumers.

Post# 257002 , Reply# 4   11/20/2013 at 04:37 (3,781 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Miele customer service is very good though. I had a turbo brush for my S6220 start losing a few clumps of bristles from the brushroll, so I phoned them up and they sent me a brand new one within 3 days. I still use the old one as it didn't loose any more bristles after that, and the new one is still in its box as a spare. Cant grumble with that.

Never had to contact Sebo - Sebos are so reliable they probably only have 1 or 2 operators manning the phones as they don't expect man breakdown calls.


Post# 257008 , Reply# 5   11/20/2013 at 06:14 (3,781 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        
I think it depends on the customer.

sebo_fan's profile picture
SEBO have been fine with me - they have sent out free clips and even at one point a hose clip for my old X1A. They're very understanding...

The only customer service company that have let me down in the past were Miele but also that of Bosch. Miele have improved now, which is always good to know but Bosch don't tend to want to know.


Post# 257009 , Reply# 6   11/20/2013 at 06:16 (3,781 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Hoover UK are a post all created for their own - absolutely useless.

"Oh we don't know of any floorcare appliances that are coming out. We only go with what our Head office in Italy send us."'

"The part doesn't come under the free 5 year warranty."

"That's our small appliance section you'll have to contact directly.."

So many excuses.


Post# 257013 , Reply# 7   11/20/2013 at 09:34 (3,781 days old) by HooverCelebrity (Germany)        

I'm glad to know that the customer service seems to be top-notch.  You wrote a really nice message and review, and it seems like they genuinely appreciated it.  It's not often that you get a reply from the CEO.  I haven't used my SEBO Felix in a while, perhaps I'll pull it out and give it a run!  Are your bags paper or a cloth HEPA bag?  I don't think I've ever changed the bag in my Felix, but seem to recall that the bags are a dense cloth material.  I wonder if that type of bag is available for the Windsor style machine?  Perhaps the quality/workmanship is different?

 

Thanks for sharing your positive experience.


Post# 257032 , Reply# 8   11/20/2013 at 14:46 (3,781 days old) by Vintagerepairer (England)        
Sebo UK

Well of course it goes without saying that once a product has been purchased -or indeed if a query clearly relates to anything which is not going to result in a sale- no company is going to fall over themselves with help.

The problem I have had with Sebo is not anything to do with time taken to answer calls or any such matter, but in an overall unwillingness to help me purchase a new part for a cleaner. They have two of them here, the X4 pets model, and one has a damaged dustbox. To claim under warranty relies on the cleaner being sent back for inspection, the result of which would result in costs if they deem the fault not to be due to what I was told as being due to "manufacturing". This in itself is not the problem, the problem I had was when I told them that it could go either way and that it may just be easier if we buy the part.

At this point the caller handler refused to tell me how much it would cost and how I could go about ordering it. I was told to e-mail them with my request. I am an old man, I was doing a favour for the warden by making the call, but I have little desire to spend what time I have left on the phone to people who are not willing to co-operate.

A while after this, I happened to be walking past an establishment where commercial cleaning equipment is sold. They have Sebo cleaners in their window. I went in and asked if they had any ideas as to how I could obtain the part we need. They didn't - but they did suggest that the run-around I'd had was something one can expect of Sebo.


Post# 257049 , Reply# 9   11/20/2013 at 17:05 (3,781 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

You will probably find that the call operator was on minimum wage or possibly even on unpaid work experience. Many companies are now exploiting the UK Government's workfare scheme, and taking free labour paid for by the state. Many employees are now very disgruntled with their employers for various other reasons, and we are seeing a return to the old days of "Sorry, its more than me job's worth" attitudes.

When you hear of directors and CEO's of FTSE 100 companies getting obscene pay rises and bonuses, and those at the bottom getting next to nothing, I am not surprised.

 


Post# 257115 , Reply# 10   11/21/2013 at 03:25 (3,780 days old) by Vintagerepairer (England)        
What ever it was

It did not inspire me to buy that brand.

Post# 257120 , Reply# 11   11/21/2013 at 05:58 (3,780 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Well, you're losing out - but that's your opinion already formed. You're not that old to put your opinion on a thread, so there's no reason to why you can't email sebo. From the nature of your complaint, you should email them and see what happens. I don't think you were received by the right customer service person when you initially phoned.

I was the same with Nespresso - my late mother had spent so much on the coffee and their machines that when one broke as a replacement coffee machine, Nescafe weren't interested, even when the machine was under guarantee. They couldn't repair the part that broke off the machine and offered a replacement one with a price drop. My late mum loved her machine but didn't want to change the machine and after the amount she spent on Nescafe, the justification wasn't quite right.

In the end we bought another machine from a department store (free Gold Fish points) and she was very happy. Now that I have it, I'm at two minds to buy the coffee in, but it is a lot nicer than Dolce Gusto (which I also have, myself) at higher cost. I have already sent a letter of complaint to Nescafe and they agree that they should have repaired the machine by sending it back to Krups in Germany. But, of course "should woulda coulda" springs to mind there, so the only thing they could do was send out a box of free coffee pods "to sweeten hard feelings."


Post# 257125 , Reply# 12   11/21/2013 at 06:53 (3,780 days old) by Vacuumfreeeke ()        

OK, so this is the last response from the CEO:

Dear Bobby,

Thank you for sending me your shipping address and a photo of the bags. We will send you a free box of bags and a Service Box to the address shown below. Also, I looked at the photo you sent me today that showed your vacuum bags. Yes, they are genuine SEBO bags, so I apologize for the problems you experienced.

If you need anything else, please don't hesitate to contact us.

Best Regards,

John



He really did use my first name this time!

Fred, thanks for responding... from what I can tell, Sebo only makes paper bags, but there are cloth type aftermarket bags available on Amazon not made by Sebo... I may well try those if I ever run out of these 20 they guy is sending me.... On one hand, I have so many machines and such a small place that I don't change bags very often so they might last the rest of my life, but on the other hand, the way these things break, I could be through all 20 in a week! He did finally admit that my bags are genuine, as you can see from the e-mail, but he never gave a reason why this might be happening....

Still, great customer service and I'm impressed that my complaint was so well received....


Post# 257140 , Reply# 13   11/21/2013 at 09:43 (3,780 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Just to say. As yet SEBO don't make the synthetic bags for the X series worldwide, but they have made them for the K, D and Felix models. You can buy synthetic ones from German websites but I've never been that keen on them. I think SEBO may well be working on that type at the moment.

Post# 257372 , Reply# 14   11/23/2013 at 11:22 (3,778 days old) by Blackheart (North Dakota)        
>_> It happened to me too.

blackheart's profile picture
I was just using my Sensor and opened the bag chamber to check on the bag level of it and found that the collar ripped off completely. Like Bobby i've been using the Ultra bags.

Post# 257373 , Reply# 15   11/23/2013 at 11:23 (3,778 days old) by Blackheart (North Dakota)        
.

blackheart's profile picture
I've also sent them an email asking if the issue with them has been resolved and asking if the hepa bags will see release in the US. I know the guy i go to has hepa bags for the felix


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