Thread Number: 22907
Panasonic/Sears canisters
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Post# 256273   11/14/2013 at 08:11 (3,815 days old) by williamr1248 (USA)        

I have been looking at the Panasonic canisters.
Does anyone have any experience with these machines?
I have heard from several vac collectors and several non vac collector owners that the Sears canisters have LOTS of electrical problems with the power nozzle and wand set up after after only about 2 years and the fix is very expensive.
I was wondering if the Panasonic canister suffered from the same issues?
The reports from owners are not too good even on the web site. Very mixed reviews about the reliability. Also I have read issues about the exhaust and not good hepa filtering with the Sears machines.
They look like interesting machines that come with regular size tools and a full set of tools. Just viewing the power nozzle , it looks a little on the flimsy but we are talking about a cheap, china, throw-a-way vacuum, not a Filter Queen ,Rainbow or Aerus level machine. I am looking at the bagged machines only.


Post# 256277 , Reply# 1   11/14/2013 at 10:37 (3,815 days old) by jade_angel (Fort Collins, CO)        

My experience with them suggests they're quite good for what they are - you can find better vacuums, you can find cheaper vacuums, but they're better than anything else in their price range and cheaper than most others for the quality. Durability would be my major concern.

Also, in some of the Kenmore-branded ones, yeah, air does blow past the post-motor filter. Not a huge deal with good bags, though. I haven't seen that problem on the Panasonic-branded ones - I'll bet there are some build quality differences, though I've never had both side-by-side to confirm.

The PN itself is good but not great. Those are made by Centec, I think. The connections can be a little witchety after a while, however, and replacement hoses and wands are rather pricey. You might be able to use a third-party replacement nozzle - I don't know, never tried it.

Long story short, if you want durability, get a Miele, Simplicity/Riccar, Numatic, Sebo or one of the door-to-door machines. If you want good performance for the price and don't mind that you'll only get 4-5 years out of it (before the PN connections flake out and you're left with a suction-only machine), get a Panasonic.


Post# 256283 , Reply# 2   11/14/2013 at 11:08 (3,815 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA)        

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I have had a couple, lower line model and top of the line both. I don't think as good as they used to be, what is? But for the money, they clean well, the plastic feels flimsy on some parts, but none ever broke on me, I am gentle of course. There is about half the exhaust leaks out the cord hole and half through the hepa filter on my two.I still honestly enjoy using them more than my Miele, god I am going to be shot.

Post# 256288 , Reply# 3   11/14/2013 at 11:53 (3,815 days old) by williamr1248 (USA)        
Panasonic/Sears canisters

David,
I feel the same way about the Miele. There were some things I liked about my Miele (like strong suction and quiet motor) but a lot more that really did not work for me. Mine had a very short power cord, short stiff hose, heavy wands and baby tools. I sold mine.
I went to several stores that carry Panasonic but no retailers carried the bagged machines. I did check out the Sears canisters and I agree with what you said. They seemed very flimsy construction and you are forced to return to Sears and pay to have them shipped to the service center after warranty.
The Sears was easy to push and pleasant quiet motor.
I do see there are several places were you can order the machine on line for $199.00 with shipment to the local stores with free shipping.
I am keeping in mind the price range we are talking about with this item.
No question it would not be in the quality range of the high end machines.
Just became interested because I never knew anyone who owned a Panasonic.


Post# 256289 , Reply# 4   11/14/2013 at 12:08 (3,815 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA)        

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Nail hit on the head!

Post# 256307 , Reply# 5   11/14/2013 at 18:09 (3,814 days old) by fan-of-fans (USA)        

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Been using them for years.

The quality is as mentioned, not as good as it used to be. Compared to other plastic vacuums, they are better than most from big box store machines, IMO.

A lot of people complain about the electrical problems in hose/wands. I have never had a problem with them shorting out or anything like that on the ones I've had, and I still have a 1999 Whispertone that gets used pretty often. What I did have happen on one Whispertone was the tab that holds the receptacle in the hose handle broke, so the receptacle got pushed back. This caused the power nozzle to work intermittently. After I glued it back in place, it worked fine.

The new motors are a big problem from what I've heard. The older ones used two stage Lamb/Ametek. In the early/mid 1990s, lower end models went to single stage Lamb/Ametek. During the 2000s, cheaper models went to Panasonic and Sip Cinderson Ltd motors, which sometimes die after a short time. If you look at Panasonic brand vaccuums, they probably all use Panasonic motors.

I have the current TOL Progressive I bought used at Sears in 2012. It runs fine and is built okay. I would compare it to the late 1990s units other than the motor. But I did have a problem where the cable in the telescoping wand broke somewhere and only the vacuum motor would work. It was under warranty so I took it back to Sears and they replaced the wand for free. I am a little leery to adjust the wand now that this happened as I don't want it to break again.


Post# 256311 , Reply# 6   11/14/2013 at 18:43 (3,814 days old) by piano_god (British Columbia, Canada)        

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Just some slight input on the Miele discussion that's developed...

To summarize "Miele" with an S2 series machine is a little skewed. A Miele S2 is a machine that's built to a price, not a standard. As such, it has a ridiculously short cord and short hose, a smaller, less powerful 1200w Vortex motor with little sound insulation, as well as cheaper attachements (ie: synthetic bristles used on the dusting brush). The machine is also made on an automated assembly line in Bielefeld, Germany, which helps to cut further cost.

Other Miele's, like the former S4 and S5, and the current S6 and S8, are built to a standard and address the majority of the issues you've mentioned. The S2 isn't meant to compete with Miele's other lines; it's purpose is to compete with the "higher-end" big-box store varieties.

 

 


 

 

As for the Kenmore machines, they're better left on the shelf. As Sears continues its downward spiral, their machines have continued to be cheapened out more and more. In Canada, where canister vacuums rule the landscape, the shear amount of wire harness and lower wand issues that burn out is appalling. In fact, I am surprised they haven't been recalled...

 

The melting end cap issue on the brush rolls continues, though the newest have been revised to prevent build-up of debris...


Post# 256323 , Reply# 7   11/14/2013 at 23:58 (3,814 days old) by vacuumman206 ()        

I only like the designs of the mid-late 90's models, otherwise those rectangle-shaped bodies run into every wall, obstacle and piece of furniture they can to slow your cleaning down! I got one of those newer (bagged) progressives out of the trash and I find myself using it alot. One thing I definitely never liked about Kenmore/Panasonic canisters was the attachment door and it's attached molded plastic hinges with their tendancy to get stuck and break. And the older wands didn't keep their tightness for long, as already mentioned. Another nice but ill-designed feature on the newer ones is the thing to hang the nozzle on the underside of the machine. They should have made it a little higher so the nozzle sits flush with the machine, not to mention you have to tilt the machine back and get the nozzle at the right angle so the whole thing sits flat on the floor. Great idea but they didn't check their measurements. This 2009 progressive that I have has pretty good suction, and it's rather quiet too.

Post# 256329 , Reply# 8   11/15/2013 at 00:58 (3,814 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

I have seen many Kenmore/Panasonic canister vacuums in the former Vacuum Cleaner Hospital and the present Greenville Sew & Vac that had the burned wand,hose connectors for the powernozzles.Also the front wheel on these machines breaks thru the bottom canister pan.Result-the machine isn't worth repairing-goes to the dumpster.There are a few Sears machines that have been traded in towards Miele vacs at the Greenville Sew & Vac place.Mike uses them to show the shortcomings on these machines to prospects-most buy the Miele or even Sebo canister.Yes,the Sears/Panasonics are good for low cost-but in general last only a few years before the power nozzle coonections go or the front wheel breaks the canister pan.Usually from the machine being jerked hard or dropped.These don't roll as easily as the Miele or Sebo.And these vacuums don't have the air seals in their lids or other canister body parts as does the Mieles or Sebos-therefore moe air and dust leakage.

Post# 256339 , Reply# 9   11/15/2013 at 03:20 (3,814 days old) by williamr1248 (USA)        
Panasonic/Sears canisters

I noticed a big difference between the customer satisfaction ratings for the Panasonic's and the Sears canisters. You would think they would be close as they look like the same machine with only slightly different features and color. The Panasonic's got much higher ratings.
I am trying to keep in mind that we are talking about a machine with cord rewind, hose handle off/on switch, power nozzle and full set of tools for under $200.00.
My expectations would be less than for a machine like the Miele that was way over $600.00 or my Aerus and Rainbow canisters.
I can sort of see customers abusing the machine and the bottom pan breaking.
I am sure the vac shop owners see it all over time.


Post# 256346 , Reply# 10   11/15/2013 at 06:26 (3,814 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

The bottom pan may be breaking becuase the Sears/Panasonic canisters don't roll as easily as the Mieles,Sebos and others-so the customer jerks the hose to get the canister to move-it jerks up and slams back into the floor breaking the pan where the single front wheel mounts.And with age on these-the front wheel doesn't roll smoothly and the swivel mount on the wheel doesn't move easily either.So the customer almost uses a car puller to get the tank to move.

Post# 256351 , Reply# 11   11/15/2013 at 08:07 (3,814 days old) by williamr1248 (USA)        
Panasonic/ Sears Canisters

Rex,
That makes PERFECT sense.
I had the SAME experience when I bought that Hoover Anniversary Canister. It LOOKED somewhat like my Miele but it was without doubt the WORST piece of junk. You had to DRAG that machine across the floor and because the hose did not swivel easily and was so short and stiff, it would kink. It was terrible to use and I should have known because the owner reports were nothing short of dismal even on Hoover's own web site. Power nozzle was very, very cheap plastic, handle would not stay up and the other tools were just a joke. It was such poor workmanship , I was afraid I would break it just using it once in a while when club members visited.
It looked beautiful but that was the end of it. Very big disappointment for $399.00 and in use that was reflected in a lot of owners reports about use and reliability issues. Thanks for sharing the information.
The reports I read on the Panasonic canister were much better in that area and they seemed to LIKED the way the machine handled.
It may be very true that the newer models are not up to the older standards.


Post# 256380 , Reply# 12   11/15/2013 at 17:58 (3,813 days old) by fan-of-fans (USA)        

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As I said I never had a problem with the connections burning out in the hose or wand. I am surprised it happens so often on these. Sure if you are constantly attaching/removing the hose from wand or wand from power nozzle without turning off the vacuum first, it will spark and could burn, but the instructions have warned about that for years.

I think more often the problem is the connectors get moved around and don't make good contact anymore. It isn't noticeable really unless you take the handle apart and then you see where the connector is loose. I suppose also if that connector moves around while vacuuming it could cause sparking and the plug to get burned out. The loose connections seem to happen more on the gas pump style handles than the older metal curved handles. Maybe they are designed differently.


Post# 256403 , Reply# 13   11/16/2013 at 02:00 (3,813 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

Burned connectors-Remember WE as vacuum collectors and more dedicated users will heed the makers instructions--BUT the AVERAGE user will not.The vacuums owners manual is left in the box-never to be seen by the eyes of man again.In looking at the wands,connectors of these Sears/Panasonic hoses they seem to fail not only by the user connecting and disconnecting with the power on-but the wear from pushing and pulling the wand and nozzle on the floor.Older ones didn't suffer from this as much.Mainly the newer ones built in the last several years or so.Never used a Hoover Anniversary machine-but thanks for the high sign on them-guess these will be showing up in vac places soon.Suppose disgruntled customers will trade them in for Mieles and other better vacuums.Think Hoover and Panasonic/Sears should submit their vacuums to the same torture tests Miele does to theirs-the machines that tug on hoses,stretch them,and pull and push the wands and tools.

Post# 256406 , Reply# 14   11/16/2013 at 04:03 (3,813 days old) by williamr1248 (USA)        
Panasonic/Sears canisters

Rex,
Another machine that I had which got horrible reviews for service problems and waiting for parts was my Electrolux Oxygen 3. Unlike my Hoover Anniversary, I really liked the Electrolux Oxygen 3. It was very quiet and had large wheels and was very well balanced. The wands were easy to assemble and remove from the power nozzle. I had no problems with mine but a lot of customers seemed to have electrical problems with the wands and also problems with getting parts for the machine. I was warned to NEVER connect or disconnect the electric wands with the machine in operation.
I have read several reports from customers that the Panasonic service may leave a lot to be desired. I checked their web site and the closest service facility in Indiana is 77 miles away. NONE listed for Indianapolis.
Of course being a collector, I am trying to keep the price point of under $200.00 in mind and most people would just junk the machine and buy another vacuum.
It is amazing when we as collectors think about some of the older CHEAP machines like the Hoover Convertibles, Eureka uprights and canisters and GE's that took so much abuse by their owners and still worked for years and years.
I am amazed when you read the reviews by consumers talking about replacing their vacuums every 2-3 years and they seem to EXPECT them to only last a few years.
Thanks again for your input and points of view.


Post# 256414 , Reply# 15   11/16/2013 at 06:25 (3,813 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

Rob: Oh yes the "infamous" Electrolux-Eureka Oxygen vacuums-saw MANY of these as patients in the former Vacuum Cleaner Hospital and the present Greenville Sew&Vac.Problems-the wand power connectors,Circuit Boards in the canister-and two occasions of the motor actually "Spin-sploding" in the canister-fortunately no one was hurt-but scared the customer into buying another vacuum.These two machines were at the former Vacuum Cleaner Hospital.The motors were sent back to Electrolux-at least the peices in a plastic bag.Electrolux sent replacement motors.Same with wands.I AVIOD these machines like the plague-they get turned into the trade in piles-and often-since no one wants them -they get dumpstered working or not.It seems to be a good performing machine-but has reliability problems.The Electrolux Oxygens were traded in torward Mieles or Riccar.Bill of the former Vacuum Cleaner Hospital recommened to customers to return the vacuum to Lowes and get a refund-then buy a better machine from him or Geenville Sew&Vac.Both Mike and Bill got tired of working on these.

Post# 256416 , Reply# 16   11/16/2013 at 08:20 (3,813 days old) by williamr1248 (USA)        
Panasonic/Sears canisters

Rex,
What was so sad to me was companies like Electrolux and Hoover had such wonderful products. I think a lot of people bought these Electrolux and Hoover products, thinking they were getting the same quality machines that their parents and grandparents had owned years ago.
I was quite shocked at the quality of the Ricarr/Simplicity uprights.
When the guy turned the Ricarr over and it still had the METAL bottom plate and Metal roller with replaceable brushes and the bottom plate had simple latches to release the bottom plate for a belt replacement along with the metal handle release I was impressed.
The Ricarrs/Simplicity were expensive but they have some lower tier models that are still made very well.


Post# 256534 , Reply# 17   11/17/2013 at 01:58 (3,812 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

Rob: That was a problem customers were being duped to think they were getting a "real" Electrolux like what their Mother or Grandmother had-but an imitation.And old Hoover products were very good-far better than the TRASH TTI is putting out now with the "Hoover" name on it-sad to see a fine make as Hoover and Electrolux-now Royal and Oreck going the "Dumpster" vac route under TTI.Yes,Riccar/Simplicity are top notch-esp for mid priced vacuums.When Bill at Vacuum Cleaner Hospital here he was the Riccar dealer-He died and the dealership went under.I was able to get several machines via his widow.She let me have them-Using one right now-a Riccar Radiance Premium.Have a Blue Brilliance and the Burgundy Radiance.And 1700,1800(think that what it is) canisters.Nice machines.They do have same features as vacuums costing much more.Also have Bills Pink Filter Queen he used as his bench vac.Serves as a memorial to him along with the Riccars.Mike at Greenville Sew&Vac is a Simplicity dealer.He has several models on display.He pushes the Mieles and Sebos more,though.

Post# 256572 , Reply# 18   11/17/2013 at 07:02 (3,812 days old) by williamr1248 (USA)        
New Panasonic/implicity canister

Rex,
Thanks again. Over time I have learned to enjoy and value your posts on the forum. You always give a fair and interesting post with useful information.
Of course this Panasonic will not be a vac I really use. I am only using the Rainbow because of the allergies and dust but I like to look at many vacuums and see what they offer within their price class.

Here are some interesting facts I noticed in checking this Panasonic machine out:

(1) If you look under the Walmart and Home Depot web sites and read the reviews for this machine, it is getting almost 5 stars and owners seem to be very happy with the product and a lot to them are replacing their similar Sears canister with the same type machine.
(2) I was noticing the AGE range of most of the reviewers and they seemed to be older generation who just wanted a SIMPLE straight forward machine with full set of useable tools
(3) the ONE main complaint seems to be the electrical connections at the power nozzle.

Here is another interesting fact:

I have a very nice DELUXE HOOVER SPIRIT canister with the high end HOOVER Quadraflex agitator. It has the cord rewind, bag light, tool storage, chrome wands and lighted power nozzle. Quite a beautiful Hoover finished in brown/taupe finish.
I have the bill of sale from a furniture store and it was $239.95 in 1995 when I received it as a Christmas gift. It is one of my favorite machines except for the dust leakage.
TODAY I am ordering the Panasonic canister with about all the same features for $189.00. Of course I will assume the new Panasonic will not be as high a quality as the old 1989 Hoover but I will get MUCH better filtration and a larger bag and I am expecting a quieter product.

I always try to be careful and NOT insult any of the other brands of machines as many of our reader may be making their living selling that particular brand or style but when you look up some of the reviews of many of the newer machines I have bought they get dismal reports even on their own web sites.

I am a little concerned over the Panasonic service available but I had problems on getting service for several of my Anniversary Hoovers with both damaged machines and features that would not work from the start. At least in our area the nice vac shops are all about selling the new higher quality and cost machines like Miele, Ricarr/Simplicity, Sanitare and now Sebo vacuums.
That may of course be a regional thing.


Post# 256599 , Reply# 19   11/17/2013 at 09:27 (3,812 days old) by williamr1248 (USA)        
Panasonic/Sears canisters

Just reading the reviews on the HIGH end Sears canisters. It is very sad as page after page of unhappy owners with all about the same electrical problems.
It is strange that the expensive Sears seems to have a lot more problems than the less expensive models.
You always know there might be a few customers where the machine was abused but when you see so many with the same complaint it makes you wonder.
It was the same with the reviews of my Electrolux Oxygen and the Hoover Anniversary canister.


Post# 256602 , Reply# 20   11/17/2013 at 09:52 (3,812 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA)        

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I know with my high end and lower end machines, the connections to the hose/ wand are different! The cheaper machine the plug clips in and out.

Post# 256609 , Reply# 21   11/17/2013 at 11:20 (3,812 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY)        
I LOVED the three that I had

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of the Sears canister vacs......but with my experience (even if they are babied), yet used a lot.....and correctly - they ALL short out on my after a couple of years.....Granted, I vacuumed my 1300 sq ft home about 5 times per week for 2 years before the connections shorted......I never ever once had a problem with the motor themselves....The OTHER thing I hated was the fact that it was NOT sealed.....I guess if you use a really good bag, it's ok.......but why is it so difficult to seal a vacuum?

Post# 256611 , Reply# 22   11/17/2013 at 11:37 (3,812 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

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My personal experience with the highly-rated Sears Kenmore Progressive ("Elegance" in Canada) is as follows: I bought the hunter green version (model 27210) with telescopic wand in 2001 for myself. Great performing machine and lots of conveniences such as a 7 foot hose and 30 foot cord. It is pretty much the same machine as the less deluxe Panasonic CG902.

But in 2005 the original Kenmore motor blew for no good reason. I had treated that motor with kid gloves all through those years - frequently changing the bags and filters and monitoring the red warning light which warns of stress on the motor. Because I loved the vac so much, I decided to spend $140 dollars to replace the motor with a compatible Panasonic motor - rather than buying a whole new vac. Well, that replacement motor is still going strong in my mom's apartment.

Considering I spent in total about CAD$750 on this vac over a 12 year period, I think I got a great deal!


Post# 256612 , Reply# 23   11/17/2013 at 11:41 (3,812 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

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By the way, I never had a problem with the electrical connections in the telescopic wand. Probably because it has only been used about one time per week over the years! :-)

Post# 256620 , Reply# 24   11/17/2013 at 12:01 (3,812 days old) by williamr1248 (USA)        
Panasonic/Sears

Brian,
That sounds reasonable for 12 years of service.
I am not finding a lot of feed back on the Panasonic motors failing just service may be hard to locate.

Mark,
I remember well you telling about buying multiple Sears vacuums and how they failed after about 2 years. Also know you are person who does take good care of your equipment from our conversations on our Rainbows.

I don't have the same expectations from a vac that is less than $200.00 that I would from my Rainbow. Although I think there must be an element of truth in so many people reporting the same exact problem in such a short time frame.
What I see as the catch is that the replacement part is VERY expensive and not sure if it is available from regular vac shops.


Post# 256652 , Reply# 25   11/17/2013 at 13:24 (3,811 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

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Just another note to throw into the discussion: the original Kenmore Progressive telescopic wands were made of heavy chrome or steel. It has always been extremely difficult to separate it from the hose handle. The connection is VERY tight. I noticed that several years ago, Sears changed to an easier-to-use aluminum wand with a more comfortable disconnect button. I wonder if these lighter wands have looser electrical connections. If so, the conundrum is: how to create a dependable electrical connection across vac parts that are still easy to separate. I wonder if Miele owners have the same problems.

Post# 256663 , Reply# 26   11/17/2013 at 13:58 (3,811 days old) by williamr1248 (USA)        
Panasonic/Sears canisters

Brian,
I have enjoyed your input as I know NOTHING about older Sears machines.
I can say that I hated the heavy steel wand on my Miele so much I took it back and the retailer was kind enough to exchange it for the older Miele style matt grey finish wand that was somewhat lighter in weight.
It was so stupid as the Mile canister itself was very light weight and easy to pull around and nice quiet, very powerful motor but the whole effect was ruined by the heavy wand and short electric cord and the stiff, short hose. The machine was under foot all the time. The power nozzle also pushed very easy too but it was tiring to use with that heavy wand always pulling your arm down. I had the lighter weight power nozzle. Not sure how effective it was at getting deep sand and grit.
I think Hoover, Electrolux and Air-Way had it right with the lighter weight aluminum wands.
The older Filter Queens had heavy chrome wands but somehow because of their "S" shape they did not seem heavy in use.
One of the nicest wands and rug tools I ever used came with Michael Turner's GE canister. It had a flip over rug tool and it had a light feel easy feel in use.
His GE also had a nice long hose that swiveled like the Air-Way.



Post# 256699 , Reply# 27   11/17/2013 at 17:47 (3,811 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

eurekaprince's profile picture
Rob...glad to be of help!

All theses issues with electrical connections and heavy electrified wands continues to support my constant advice to vac-buyers these days: better to get two simpler vacs than one that claims to clean everything - an upright for carpets and a canister for everything else!


Post# 256764 , Reply# 28   11/18/2013 at 05:33 (3,811 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

Rob: Glad you have found my entries useful-Quite the converse-found yours useful,too.Glad you like your Rainbow.I have several in my collection-including their latest E2 model-but just don't use them much.Honestly-like my Kirby and others better for the carpet-but the Rainbow is sort of interesting to use.Rainbows new "Whisker Brush" powernozzle is lots better than that older one.Now,if only other canister vac makers could only use that new Rainbow style powernozzle on their machines we would be really getting somewhere.
I don't like the idea of Panasonic and some other vac makers selling in both box places and dealers.Dealers can best demonstrate the machine by a person that knows it-as opposed to a Big Box store with a static display often involving a "dummy" non working machine.And the box places "undercut" the dealers in prices-angering them.Remember this years back-when Royal--before TTI took over-Bill of the Vac Hospital was an official Royal dealer for this area-He dropped them when he saw Royal metal commercial uprights at Sams Club under the "Dirt Devil" name.-and at lower prices--He even said to me-they sell the machines at a lower price than what they sell to me wholesale. That angered him and he dropped Royal.Don't blame him.Now Greenville Sew&Vac is a Royal dealer-but Mike doesn't want to stock them.He will order a machine if a customer requests one.There is a vac dealer in Goldsboro that stocks Royals.Thats about an hour from me.
Rob,Hope you like your new Panasonic-will be interesting to see how it works for you-even though your Rainbow is your daily driver.
My Stepmom bought a Sears machine from them years ago from the Rapid City Sears store-looked just like Panasonics do.Was a nice vac-she has died-and since her and my Dad moved to an assisted care place don't know what happened to it.She usually took good care of her things.


Post# 256778 , Reply# 29   11/18/2013 at 07:41 (3,811 days old) by williamr1248 (USA)        
Panasonic/Sears canisters

Rex,
I agree with you about the Kirby. I was a Kirby user for over 20 years at my last house with one floor and all wall to wall carpeting. After I moved into this house with multiple floors and started having allergies the Kirby just had to go. I hated to admit it but it became just too heavy to carry and it always smelled even with the heap bags. They are great machines and so durable.
My new interest in the Panasonic is just from a collecting stand point and the fact that I never owned one or knew anyone who had a Sears or Panasonic machine.

All thing equal I still like the Kirby and I never had any trouble using the tools. The Rainbow spoiled me as there is just NO DUST, NO ODOR EVER to deal with and so much less dust in the house with its use. It is heavy too but I can carry it in separate pieces and the new Black Rainbow is so much more user friendly than my older SE.
I will give you an update after I get the Panasonic. I want to see how it compares to my Hoover Spirit canister with the Quadraflex power nozzle.


Post# 256788 , Reply# 30   11/18/2013 at 10:39 (3,811 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY)        
Well speaking on the connections

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The Electrolux Epic 6500 that I bought USED off Ebay.......they have quick disconnect, and so far I have had no trouble at all with them shorting out. I think I have had it perhaps 2 years or so.......Although I MUST say, as far as using it compared the the Kenmore Canister........(although I do LOVE the Epic 6500) I think I liked the Sears canister a bit better....(but not by much)...also, like the bag changing better on the Electrolux.......The bag changing on the Kenmore was EASY..........BUT............The collar system was somewhat flawed because (whether you had a Cloth high quality bag, or a paper bag, it's NOT the bags themselves that would leak, it was the was the bag met the collar/hose. It's like it barely touched when fully connected......So I think during cleaning some of the dust you would see in the BIN itself was not from the bags leaking, but from the collar/hose/bag connection barely touching and some of the dust getting past that .....My theory anyway..........The Electrolux bags are idiot proof and don't leak at all from what I can tell.......

Post# 256798 , Reply# 31   11/18/2013 at 12:03 (3,811 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        

durango159's profile picture
My experience with the Kenmore/ Panasonic wands is that it is better to have a separate set of wands for the bare floor brush and not constantly be utilizing the quick release at powerhead. Primarily I've seen the connections burn up at the quick disconnect and I think everytime that convenient feature is used, the connection gets weaker. It's almost better to find a non quick disconnect wand system where it is a single cord leading from power head up wands and having connection lock into hose. I think the older style gray colored hose has a good sturdy lock and would have no problem with a long term connection from hose to wands.

The Kenmore Intuition TOL model greatly sees more problems because that power nozzle bare floor brush connection that is built into the power head doesn't last long. I've seen the tiny wheels and primary connectors on the bare floor brush break off and while this is all happening the electrical connections get loose too. Eventually the bare floor brush doesn't even lock back into the power head again without a really good fight!!

I've used the Hoover Windtunnel Anniversary canister S3670 for about 2 years. I had no problem with the power head. That Windtunnel power head on that model was Maytags design back around 2000 when the first Windtunnel power head canister hit the market. So as flimsly as that plastic looks, it still holds up well over time. The wheels on that power head are the bad part and don't work well for rear or front. The hose, wands, tools and circuit board are the disaster in my mind on that unit. The tools go along with many other big box store vacs on the market. All these very teeny slim designed tools with crevice tools that can barely reach down the sides of a car seat, upholstery nozzles that have no means of agitation and take 3 times as long to cover a step or sofa cushion because of size. It's ridiculous!!! With new technology one would hope that most peoples dreaded chore of cleaning becomes more efficient but the attachments these days VOID that hope!!! The hose on that Hoover Windtunnel Anniversary is the clumsiest, hardest maneuvering material ever with that awful wire shrinking the air path inside the hose since its not spiraled into the design and actually more of a long hard plastic line going all the way down. The handle is uncomfortable to use as the seem of the 2 pieces just feel quite uncomfortable. As for the canister mobility, I've noticed with machines with the 4 small independantly spinning wheels that they get stuck on everything. When all clear they work well, but roll up to door jams, cords, area rugs and those small wheels on this Hoover, Riccars and Mieles I've used can't do the job, the older machines with large rear wheels can!!

Enjoy the new Panasonic MCCG902. I'd get a separate set of wands with 10" all bristle bare floor brush for floors. This will help wand connections last longer and also clean better on hard floors than the short, stiff bristle Panasonic floor brush with bristles that don't really flex to sweep all dust from floor into air path. The canister body on these machine is a good sturdy design of the original Kenmore Progressive line, very different from the current Progressive canister line.


Post# 256813 , Reply# 32   11/18/2013 at 16:26 (3,810 days old) by williamr1248 (USA)        
Panasonic/Sears canisters

Rob,
Thanks for you idea of just getting a second set of wands for the floor brush.
You hit the mark on that Hoover Anniversary machine. I don't understand why any maker would put those toy looking useless tools. I agree with you 100%.
With so many customers reporting the SAME problem over several years you would think they would WANT to correct the problem as the Panasonic/Sears model seems to be well liked by the owners except for the electrical failure.
This will never be a machine used for regular use but I wanted to see what a Panasonic machine was like in operation.
Rob


Post# 256872 , Reply# 33   11/19/2013 at 00:50 (3,810 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        
It's a great unit!!

durango159's profile picture
Actually I really think that you're going to love using that Panasonic!!! I'm a fan of the larger rear wheels, I find they get over door jams and their own cord better than small wheels. Lots of air flow on those machines, all the tools on board. Both motors are pleasant sounding and fairly quiet. The power head is very quiet. Cosmetically I think the entire machines looks great. If I was to be "knit picky" and find things to criticize it would only be a couple issues as follows:

1) Powerhead will not stay completely flat to floor when handle is all of the way down. It will lift up a little in the front going a fair ways under beds.

2) Small or no suction duct channel for belt side edge cleaner. Sometimes dirt can clump up in that area and you may see dust on top of power head housing in that area cause there's not much an airway to suck that stuff in.

3) Bare floor brush has very short cut bristles that tend to not dust floor as thorough and lack of bristles along side can allow front plastic of bare floor brush to scrape on floors

4) I don't believe suction unit wheels are rubber coated.

5) Long term durability-- motor, wand connections

That's really it!!!! Again, I think everyone would agree that there is no perfect machine. We can all find something about ALL machines on market whether it's weight, color, noise, attachments, maneuverability, etc, etc. But for the price point of this machine especially, it's essentially a no brainer design to go and get one. I can't think of another machine anywhere near that price range with that nice of an attachment set or cleaning performance. Consumer Reports has consistently rated this machine and other Kenmore/ Panasonic styled machines as great cleaners over the past few years. In fact lately Consumer Reports has gotten cheap with their reviews and they only post in the magazine the top ranking machines and this model has been posted in all those issues!!! Truly a great machine, I know you'll love it. As bad as I've played out that power head to be above with the "knit picky" remarks it's actually a great head!! Very powerful agitation, dual row chevron design, low profile, quiet, 4 position height adjustment, serpentine belt, brilliant headlight, motor/ belt protection system, brush roll on/off switch, quick disconnect wand system, heavy duty chrome wands, wrap around furniture guard, very sleek and mean looking, great color, wand lock and release pedal. It's a great system. Plastic on machine is a good grade too. I like mean looking machines. For some just of the look of how the front looks, it looks like a work horse and this one is a perfect fit for that. Some other machines I love the look of are Hoover Decade hoods, most Hoover headlight equipped power nozzles, Eureka RotoMatic power head, CenTec CT20DX heads, Riccar Brilliance.

Some websites complain about the filtration of Kenmores and these style machines. They're not Miele systems or priced at Miele either though. But there's no dust cloud escaping, you can use HEPA bags, they have a thick pre motor filter with nicely designed compartment for that filter and a HEPA exhaust filter. I'm an allergy sufferer that has problems with some vacs, and I've never had a problem with one of these units, and that's with primarilly running them with the classic yellow paper bags and not the HEPA ones.

I've seen this model with both styles of hoses. I'm curious which one you have. I hope it's the gray colored, more curve style hose handle as shown in this picture below as opposed to the straighter hose as shown on the full vacuum picture in your thread for the Panasonic MCCG902.


Post# 256873 , Reply# 34   11/19/2013 at 00:52 (3,810 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        
Other hose

durango159's profile picture
My opinion is that this hose is not as good as the one above. Curious is anyone has any other experiences with that!!

Post# 256897 , Reply# 35   11/19/2013 at 07:44 (3,810 days old) by williamr1248 (USA)        
Panasonic/Sears canister

Rob,
Thanks for the information and email. I can see the difference in the hose. I will post some pictures after the machine arrives.
We are on the same page. It seems like a lot of money and features for the price point.
I was reading some more reviews on the higher end models last evening and almost every one had problems with the power nozzle connections failing in about 2 years. I cannot understand why they would not be RIGHT on that problem as so many of the owners were REPLACING their machine with a similar machine BECAUSE they liked their first unit.
Also thanks for your input on the email about the Anniversary Hoover canister.
I just knew I was not the only one with the same thoughts after I had read the Hoover web site reviews by customers.
You will always have some who abuse a machine or for some reason it just does not suit them but when you read so many unhappy customer reviews with the same problems and dislikes you know their must be some truth to the problems.
Rob



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