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Disgusted with Chinese manufactured products
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Post# 253405   10/21/2013 at 08:19 (1,373 days old) by richardlxixxx (Jupiter, Florida)        

Good Morning to All,

I have been on a bit of a rant/tear lately concerning Chinese manufactured products. I am disgusted with the lack of quality and how quickly (after the warranty) small appliances break. It all started with my Sunbeam hand mixer. The darn thing, which gets minimal use, started to smoke while I was mixing batter for a cake. Threw it in the garbage. So I started to research new hand mixers. Why is every small appliance made in China? No matter what the brand or price, it is all manufactured in China. I then went to EBAY and found 2 brand new and unused Sunbeam Mixers in their original boxes. The hand mixer is a Sunbeam Burst of Power model. The stand mixer is a fabulous 16 speed, Power Plus Sunbeam Mixmaster.
Both were made in the USA and date to the 1970's. I also paid less for NEW OLD STOCK, than I would have for the latest Chinese garbage. Both mixers work incredibly well and I am very happy with my purchases.
Then I decided to go back to drinking percolated coffee. Farberware used to make the best electric percolators. My Mother and all my Aunts have had their Farberware percolators for many years. Well, the new ones are manufactured in China! Went to EBAY again and purchased two brand new, never used, Farberware percolators that were made in the Farberware plant located in the Bronx. Real stainless steel and terrific tasting coffee.
The USA led the world in manufacturing. Made in the US meant quality. In my opinion, all consumers should stop purchasing Chinese made products. A very difficult thing to do, as it required research and time. Avoid Chinese made products. Buy products made in Europe. Go to EBAY.
Thank you for reading my rant. Any others feel this way?

A great day to all,

Richard





Post# 253421 , Reply# 1   10/21/2013 at 11:23 (1,373 days old) by williamr1248 (USA)        
Disgusted with Chinese made products

We had the EXACT same experience with a Faberware coffee pot. It replaced one that was over 20 years old and used EVERY day.
The first thing to happen was the base of the pot got a crack that extended across the whole base. Next the nice Faberware label that was on the front of the old pot was still in perfect shape . On the new pot it has some type of sticker that peeled off.
The last thing that has happened is the handle itself has developed a hair line crack which is dangerous as if it breaks with the pot full of hot coffee there could be a bad burn.
I just filled out a replacement for call back last week on a faulty dehumidifier.
I guess there was a huge recall because of house fires.
I also bought 3 vacuums from the same maker in the last 4 years. Each was a total disapointment in build quality. It is a shame. The names are the same and the products look the same but that is where it ends. Total waste of hard earned money.


Post# 253424 , Reply# 2   10/21/2013 at 11:53 (1,373 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA)        

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Have seen this happen TOO many times.

Post# 253429 , Reply# 3   10/21/2013 at 13:22 (1,373 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Its the same in the UK as well. Companies have all been outsourcing manufacturing to China. Its all to do with money and profit, as I'm sure you can guess. The cheaper they can make products for, the more they will make in profit, as its only obvious that people will have to buy the products more often as they break down quicker due to poor quality.

More sales = more profit for the shareholders and directors. Cheaper costs of manufacture = more profit too.

The reasons that China can make things so cheaply is that the Chinese will tolerate low wages and poverty, wheras the West will not.

It will change eventually, as the Chinese start wanting more wages and start striking against corporate greed and exploitation, but in the meantime, companies are making a fortune out of Chinese manufactured goods.


Post# 253449 , Reply# 4   10/21/2013 at 16:07 (1,372 days old) by dysonman1 (Rolla, Missouri)        

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What I've noticed is the price of China-made goods is much less expensive today, than US made goods were 20 years ago. This is the Wal-Mart ideology. Go to Youtube, and look up "people of Wal-Mart". These are the people who are Happy to buy China-junk. They Don't Care About Quality. They don't care about themselves either. I would love to see a chain of stores called "Made In America" and every product be an American-built product. I'd sure shop there. And I'll bet the person who starts the chain of stores becomes a millionaire many times over.

Post# 253459 , Reply# 5   10/21/2013 at 18:19 (1,372 days old) by richardlxixxx (Jupiter, Florida)        
My rant against chinese products continues

About 10 years ago, I purchased a set of pots from Inova corporation featured on HSN. They are good pots and pans with a non stick coating advertised to last 75 years. The two smaller pots that I use the most have developed a peeling issue. I tried to contact the company, but low and behold, they are out of business. Of course, the pots were designed in the US but manufactured in CHINA. JUNK!!
As I realize that the non stick coatings of that era are made with petroleum based products, I have disposed of the two pots. After much research, I have replaced them with Scanpan cookware that is made in Denmark. Scanpan uses a 5 ply stainless steel and aluminum pot with a ceramic based non stick coating. These pots are fantastic. Best of all, they are NOT MADE IN CHINA. I would rather spend the extra money for quality products that will last, then pay less for something I have to replace every few years.
I did look at ALL CLAD, which are made in the USA, but did not like them. ALL CLAD is quality, but did not meet my requirements.
In my opinion, the US government, should impose an import tax on Chinese made products that would make them more expensive. Incentives must be devised to American manufacturers in order to expand product lines, get back to manufacturing quality electronics, appliances, etc. Buy American or European made products.

A great evening to all,

Richard


Post# 253471 , Reply# 6   10/21/2013 at 20:29 (1,372 days old) by danemodsandy (Waterloo, IA)        
Richard:

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You're talking to another Farberware percolator owner here - the vintage ones, not the new copy.

That perc is keeping company with vintage Farberware aluminum-clad pots and pans, vintage Pyrex, a 1957 Dormeyer Princess mixer, a 1972 GE 4-slice Toast-R-Oven, a set of 1957 West Bend aluminum canisters, a service for 8 in Oneida's Queen Bess (a Betty Crocker silverplate pattern), a service for 8 in Oneida's Twin Star (a Betty Crocker stainless pattern), a service for 8 in Royal China's Currier & Ives (an A & P premium with purchase), a service for 8 in Corelle Snowflake Blue (one of the 4 original Corelle Livingware patterns from 1970), a 1965 KitchenAid KDS-55 portable/convertible dishwasher, a pair of Maytag 806 washer and dryer from 1968, a Singer Athena 2000 sewing machine from 1975, a Singer Touch-Tronic 2001 sewing machine from 1979 (in the damndest four-foot-long solid oak cabinet you ever saw), an Electrolux 1205 vacuum, an Electrolux Model L vacuum, an Electrolux B-8 polisher, and a whole lot more.

Soon, a GE P * 7 self-cleaning range from 1974 is coming, and I'm busily looking for a 1970s Amana fridge I want. I have an Amana Radarange Model RR-4D from 1974 that is waiting until I get time to repair it.

So, I think it can safely be said that you are not alone, LOL! P.S.: When I repair vintage goodies, I generally only fix them once, to bring them back up to good condition. And I CAN fix them, which is often not possible with today's weird-science wonders.



Post# 253472 , Reply# 7   10/21/2013 at 20:32 (1,372 days old) by danemodsandy (Waterloo, IA)        
Oh, I Forgot:

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And enough vintage Corningware in the Cornflower pattern to open a store! Each piece has its own handle, and there are buffet cradles for every piece that will fit on them.

I pity anyone who buys stuff like this new - what's a buck or two in the thrifts and yard sales is very expensive to buy new.


Post# 253474 , Reply# 8   10/21/2013 at 20:45 (1,372 days old) by kenkart (Mocksville, NC)        
The few...

Modern appliances I have bought have been very dissapointing, In my kitchen is a 3 year old Hotpoint fridge, bought to get an icemaker, If and when I can replace it with something from the 50s, preferably a Norge, I will gladly go back to defrosting and filling up ice trays, no 1, a fan circulating air over food does nothing but spread odors and dry out food, no 2 , frost free spells freezer burn and ice cream that is sometimes hard as a brick and others mush!!! you can have it, I will keep all my old small appliances, I dont own any new ones, and I dont want them either.and if anyone can find a new range with the features my 55 Norge has, I will buy it, ...things you can not get on a new stove....good heavy units,ovens that have balanced heat, in the Norge, the outer coil of the upper unit heats with the bottom unit so everything bakes exactly the same on the top and bottom, good insulation, the doors of just about all new ranges have a air space to insulate them, all that does is draw heat up under the cooktop to make the front edge hot, all porcelian exterior,a flourescent light,lighted controls, chrome trim, a cast aluminum griddle, appliance outlets, a deep well cooker...on and on and on!!oh yeah,,,you dont have to bolt my stove to the floor for fear of it tipping over....its heavy enough it is not moving!

Post# 253492 , Reply# 9   10/22/2013 at 03:01 (1,372 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

There might be releif---Yes-The Chinese factory labor is starting to organize like what happened in the US-so labor costs can go up.
Another thing-Ships arriving into US ports will have to run from low sulphur fuel under newer EPA requirements.This will increase the cost of shipping.The cost of running these boats is rapidly rising-lets hope so and there should be incentives to open factories in the US to build things we use.Lets put folks back to work and really end the recession!


Post# 253494 , Reply# 10   10/22/2013 at 04:38 (1,372 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom)        

I only buy stuff cheap enough to bin if it breaks. Want a £20 warranty on your £15 toaster sir? No ta!

Post# 253501 , Reply# 11   10/22/2013 at 06:52 (1,372 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        

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It's the same in the UK. Brands like Hoover, Electrolux, Russell Hobbs and Hotpoint that were formerly reputable brands made in the UK are now churning out cheap, Chinese made junk.

In the UK, at least, your best bet is to buy European. Brands like Philips, Sebo, Miele, Bosch, Numatic and Dualit are still manufacturing products around Europe. Philips make excellent small appliances and have factories in The Netherlands and Poland. Dualit are, I believe, British made along with Numatic vacuums. Miele, Sebo and Bosch/Siemens manufacture in Germany (although Bosch also have a factor in Poland).

Hoover used to get away with stamping all their products as "Made in the EU", but they weren't. All the parts were manufactured in China then shipped to Portugal or Scotland and assembled their.

Sadly, it seems we are becoming a throw away society more and more. A friend of mine just replaced a 3 year old washing machine with a brand new one because it was cheaper and/or more convenient than getting the old one repaired. Ridiculous. When I was younger, my Mum would always just call the repair man when something broke.


Post# 253517 , Reply# 12   10/22/2013 at 12:36 (1,372 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        

Washing machines seem to be the worst culprits these days for being thrown out within a couple of years of being bought - some even failing within the first year, but because owners don't register the warranties or lose the receipts, they have no leg to stand on to get redress.

From what I can see, Hotpoint and Indesit are terrible for early failures from drum bearing collapse to electronics failures.

There was interest in the US model Whirlpool Duet washers for the very early failures of the spider drum supports, and I'd never advise anyone to purchase one if these types of machines as some are available in this style in the UK.

Not all washers made in the Far East are rubbish though, and a lot depends on where in the Far East they are made. I suspect the likes of Beko, Bush, Swan, are made in China, but I thought Samsung and LG were made in Korea, and LG do seem to be longer lasting than most Hotpoint or Hoover/Candy models. I also thought that Hotpoint/Indesit and Hoover/Candy made some of their machines in Italy, as well as in China.

When we think how well made washers were in the era before the 1980s, but they were in comparison MUCH more expensive in real terms than washers of today. Nowadays its the competition of companies to be the cheapest to the consumer that dictates quality and where the appliance is built, and as Beko1987 says - he likes em cheap, and because the UK now loves paying workers poverty wages, that's all many people can afford.

Its a vicious circle - due to companies in the UK paying lower and lower wages, workers cannot afford to buy the products that they themselves make, (or used to make) so they have to buy the cheaper goods that are imported from China.

 

China is now a global super-power, and has more clout in the markets than the USA or the UK, and now we must bow down to them. Its all down to the fact that China forces many workers into serfdom and poverty and exploits child labour. China is now leading a worldwide race to the bottom and soon, many in the USA and the UK will be living in worse poverty than even those in China.

When China starts to demand higher wages and starts to have strikes like we did in the 70's and 80's, then the next country to emerge will be India, and everything will end up made in India.

 

The West has lost its crown I'm afraid, and due to the ever growing population and the ever growing corporate greed in most capitalist states, I cant see things improving anytime soon for the US or the UK. Quality of goods only goes one way - you get what you pay for.

 

Perhaps the West should follow Germany's business model, as Germany seems to be not suffering as bad as other Western countries, and I can never imagine Miele or Sebo transferring manufacturing to China, but even Miele has had to lower its quality in vacs of late to compete with Bosch, Vax/TTI and Hoover/Candy.

I cannot comment on the reliability of Miele washers now as I know little about them, but I doubt that however good they claim to be, they are no longer capable of lasting 20 years, due to the fact that a small repair should one go wrong will often cost so much to be prohibitive. I do see Miele washers on EBay less than 5 years old going for spares or repairs as the owners don't want to pay Miele the high cost of sending out a repair man.

 

As Turbo 500 says, in the olden days, people bought a Hoover washer in the UK and it was solidly built, and would have cost a month's wages for m any people, so they had them repaired when the motor brushes went, or the drum bearings wore.

 

I think its totally unacceptable that a £500 Hotpoint Ultima goes for spares or repairs on EBay within 2 years for drum bearing failure. Maybe I could understand a £180 Beko or Haier model going this way, but since Hotpoint was bought out by Indesit, they have gone totally to the dogs.


Post# 253519 , Reply# 13   10/22/2013 at 13:22 (1,372 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Sorry but it has little to do with the brand, and yet again what the "average consumer/owner" will do that machine in general in its life. You'll always get owners thinking they can cram every item of clothing in just because the machine they have claims to have a large 9kg capacity.

Also washing machines and dishwashers have had "doctored warranties" over the years with several companies just pasting a 5 year or 10 year "long" warranty on the motors and paltry general parts warranties for 2 years, or less. Companies can no longer pay out for design mistakes.

BEKO washing machines are made in Turkey as far as I know and they're not low on reliability.


Post# 253520 , Reply# 14   10/22/2013 at 13:39 (1,372 days old) by madabouthoovers ()        
Pardon me Sebo Fan?

Sorry Sebo fan but it has everything to do with the brand.

Go on Ebay and see how many Indesit, Hotpoint, Hoover, Candy and Beko washers are for sale due to quality issues and breakdowns, compared to LG models. Certain brands are more unreliable than others and its NOT down to the consumers every time at all.


Post# 253521 , Reply# 15   10/22/2013 at 14:20 (1,372 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Well I beg to differ - and whilst I speak from experience - not just as a consumer but as an owner. I have been through several premium brands and budget brands - it has little to do with the owner (i.e. ME) when they have taken care of the machines they buy and use. Those with a background of collecting vacuums and taking care of them usually treat other appliances with the same care and general usage, not abuse or general "average" owner usage who won't give a care in the world to the washing machine's usage, as long as it works.

The brands of machines you've mentioned are not premium brands - you can't compared chalk with cheese in the same light that I can never compare a Hoover bagged cylinder vacuum like the TeliosPlus with the Miele S2. The Miele S2 is better though it isn't a vacuum I particularly like - I have owned the Miele S2 as well as lots of Miele vacs as well as past Hoover models - the two are not the same. If you were to provide stats that show evidence of premium branded washers being unreliable, then I would be inclined to agree, that it is not always the fault of the owner/consumer.

Furthermore Miele do have a factory in China….they produce appliances for the home market as well as screwdriver assembly where parts from Germany have been shipped to China. Does that necessarily tar Miele with the same brush?

Lastly, my parents 8 year old LG washing machine has finally died a death this week. The cost of repairs required for this old and reliable workhorse are no longer available and after much research (and sold my Hotpoint to a friend in need who has a much bigger home and family to look after than I) I ended up buying another LG washing machine - not just because I like the brand but for the fact that I like the Direct Drive compared to conventional drive belt driven drums. The machine I have picked is no where near the stats and features of the Hotpoint I had and infact the LG offers far less variety of wash programs = that's premium for you.

In turn, the general buyer won't normally "go" for brands like LG, Samsung and other higher priced brands because of several limiting features and higher cost prices. That's where Hoover and Electrolux's sub brands come in, offering consumers a far wider choice of programs and features - including BEKO who offer wide features at low cost prices.

Sadly as yet no "budget brand" has been able to incorporate a direct drive to a washing machine - though I live in hope that one day, it may happen.




This post was last edited 10/22/2013 at 14:39
Post# 253522 , Reply# 16   10/22/2013 at 14:28 (1,372 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Also if I go onto EBAY and type in Numatic, how many Numatics are available? Tons and a lot of them are second hand. Does that mean that Numatic vacs have a poor reliability record? Not quite.

Post# 253526 , Reply# 17   10/22/2013 at 15:22 (1,372 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        
Beko washers are for sale due to quality issues and breakdow

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Actually, that's not true. Machines like Hotpoint, Indesit and Beko end up on eBay because there is simply more of them about. They're the most popular brands in the UK and people sell them on for the same reason any other machine ends up on ebay - new kitchen, moving house, moving in with a partner/relative/house share, was left in a house by previous owners etc etc. The reason there are so many of them is because there are simply more of those machines sold.

Beko are proving themselves to be an excellent choice for the lower end of the market and certainly far more reliable than brands made in other countries. I'd go so far as to say Beko are a hell of a lot better than the current range of Zanussi's, which have always been a mid-high end brand.

In my experience, in the current market, Hoover/Candy machines are the worst for reliability whilst Indesit are the worst for poor performance.


Post# 253535 , Reply# 18   10/22/2013 at 16:08 (1,371 days old) by dysonman1 (Rolla, Missouri)        

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Six years ago I bought a Maytag Bravos. Three spin bearings later (because I bought the five year extended warranty), and the spin bearing goes again. I used it until the motor wouldn't turn any more. I'm not sending $250 on a bearing MADE to fail. I bought an LG ($900) and the five year extended warranty. Let's hope this one lasts.

Post# 253541 , Reply# 19   10/22/2013 at 18:32 (1,371 days old) by compactelectra (Rancho Mirage, CA - New home of the Obamas)        
Get Yourselves

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A vintage classic Maytag set from Newton, IA.  Going on 50 years old and still going strong.  Generally parts are still available and repairs are straightforward when they are needed.  Plus - pushbuttons, lights and chrome trim!


Post# 253544 , Reply# 20   10/22/2013 at 18:54 (1,371 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA)        

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Great pic!

Post# 253545 , Reply# 21   10/22/2013 at 18:58 (1,371 days old) by floor-a-matic (New Rochester/Pemberville OH)        

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I don't like my 1995 White-Westinghouse toaster too much.  Although its made in China, it's served very good to this day.  However, I still miss the old 1970s/80s Proctor-Silex toaster with woodgrain & chrome finish.

 

Years ago, I also had a Mr. Coffee coffeemaker & Corningware (like Danemodsandy's collection); but my folks had to get rid of them when my family movedFrown

 

@Compactelectra

Nice beautiful Maytag washer/dryer pair

 

Its sad things aren't made like they used to be

 

How many iPhones, iPads, Android devices & etc are made elsewhere other than China?


Post# 253547 , Reply# 22   10/22/2013 at 19:20 (1,371 days old) by danemodsandy (Waterloo, IA)        
My Maytags....

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Are the A806 washer and DE806 dryer, identical to Fred's (compactelectra) machines except for the controls.

Fred's 906 pair is the ultimate in automation - you push one button and the machine does the rest. My 806 pair has user-selectable settings, so that you can tailor a cycle to do whatever you like.

My Maytags were built when I was a sophomore in high school, 1968. None of the new machines I see being discussed here have much chance at lasting anything like the 45 years mine have already gone.

And they're not done yet!


Post# 253556 , Reply# 23   10/22/2013 at 19:45 (1,371 days old) by super-sweeper (KSSRC Refurbishment Center)        
Don't you wish?

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To stroll once more trough the isles of Montgomery Ward, Shoveling American-Made, quality goods into our carts, and never needing to replace an item again?

 

Let's see when that day comes.

My little Standard Eureka upright, 1929, still going strong at 84 years, all I've ever done was a new carbon brush. only 1 wore out!

Do you ever see a Kirby with a cracked housing? Perhaps a Electrolux with a toasted motor? No. Because it simply doesn't happen.

Do you ever see your average Wal-Mart special Bissell with busted handle releases and rattling busted bits? Perhaps a Dirt-Devil that split in half? Yes, Of course you have! I know I have, that Dirt-Devil wasn't pretty anymore (Or pretty to begin with!).

 

@ MadAboutHoovers, I remember reading about workers at a Chinese Electrics Factory rioting, holding their bosses and other important business members hostage. They did it over some new rule of sorts, stating employees have a Bathroom Break of under 1-minute (I forget), and they're deducted severely in payment for being late.


Post# 253560 , Reply# 24   10/22/2013 at 20:01 (1,371 days old) by beerad (Beautiful Vancouver BC)        
Beautiful

Set of Maytags!

Post# 253561 , Reply# 25   10/22/2013 at 20:14 (1,371 days old) by danemodsandy (Waterloo, IA)        
Brad:

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If you're referring to Fred's set of 906s, those are the Holy Grail of Maytag collecting. 906s were not common even when new; they cost more than any other Maytags, and not everyone wanted that much automation; many users preferred the flexible cycles of the 806s like I own.

Fred's pair of 906s are the finest ones known to exist, I believe. They were found and restored by a collector in Omaha who does incredibly good work. My KitchenAid dishwasher was restored by the same person, and I believe it will outlast me.

Anyway, a lot of people would like to own a pair of 906s, including me, but very few people who dream of having a pair will ever get one.


Post# 253581 , Reply# 26   10/23/2013 at 05:50 (1,371 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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Well I think its great that some people have vintage machines but judging by those massive top loaders from Maytag I doubt a lot in Europe or the UK in general could house such big beasts. I think a lot of Brits in the 1960s to 1990s were jealous of the U.S as everything was so much bigger. My parents adored their Hoover Twin tub machine but it took up too much space. Even a travel mug of coffee UK style is something you can hold, not the size of a bucket that you put in your car for constant refills.

Post# 253584 , Reply# 27   10/23/2013 at 06:19 (1,371 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)        
My parents adored their Hoover Twin tub machine

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Even still, Ryan, twin tubs fit under a kitchen worktop and were also on wheels for easy storage when not in use. You really need a utility room if you have a toploader.

Even when toploaders were more popular in the UK, everyone I knew who had one had them in a garage, utility room or cellar/basement which most houses at the time didn't have.


Post# 253609 , Reply# 28   10/23/2013 at 09:51 (1,371 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

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True, Chris - but the other "appliance" that everyone had in the 1970s was the top load deep chest freezer, you can't have that under a worktop for obvious reasons. I always felt it was a pity that our 20 year old Electrolux freezer was left out in the garage because of the space it took up but the UK majorly benefitted from shops such as Farmfoods and other frozen freezer food shops when they came along. Everyone had to have a deep chest freezer to take advantage of the economy of freezing food as well as being able to freeze home made foods, which my late mother took full advantage of between her Kenwood Chef and the Electrolux deep chest freezer.

Now of course, the largest appliance that takes up space in UK homes are for families who adore the big American style double door fridge/freezer combination. I like the designs and I love the capacities, but I'm not sure I'd have one myself. So many people I know who have modern homes don't have doorways big enough to get the American style big units in the door - and end up, rather inconveniently being accommodated in the conservatory if homes have them, or the garage, yet again!


Post# 253610 , Reply# 29   10/23/2013 at 10:16 (1,371 days old) by caligula (Benton, Pa)        
Dog treats.

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On this morning's news it said there are making dog treats that are dangerous to pets. I only give treats made in America to my dog, Felecia, I urge all of you to avoid dog (and cat) treats from China.

Alex Taber.


Post# 254607 , Reply# 30   10/30/2013 at 13:01 (1,364 days old) by paulg (my sweet home Chicago)        
I have seen a Kirby with a damaged fan housing

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However there is a story...
Years ago I worked with a man who, sadly, had a war injury and a metal plate in his head. His behavior was erratic to say the least.
He was the janitor and would damage many things. I found an old 1950's era Kirby in the basement, fixed it up and gave it to him to use.
He had a habit of SLAMMING vacuum cleaners into walls repeatedly. He did bend the fan housing. In that case I did have the Kirby Company fix the unit. Tech said he had never seen it happen before.
However, while the Kirby was being repaired I fixed up a 1970's era ORECK. Toy-like in appearance and weight as compared to the Kirby. However the man couldn't break it! Literally on the backstroke the unit was so light it would fly backwards and not touch the carpet. It was still working when I left.
Regardless, I doubt any of today's vacuums could hold up to such abuse. He even broke the baseplate on a CLARKE!
Kirby, Clarke, Oreck are all of fine quality but not invincible. the Chinese feel USA manufacturers over-engineer products to last TOO long. In such extreme cases one needs extreme quality. So... where is it now?
... And don't suggest we get rid of the janitor. He was a neighborhood charity case and ruining vacuum cleaners was better than being on the street!


Post# 254859 , Reply# 31   11/1/2013 at 15:32 (1,362 days old) by luxman107 (USA )        

Richard, I agree 100%. The good thing is it has fueled my passion for vintage items, especially small appliances mad in the USA

Post# 255421 , Reply# 32   11/6/2013 at 18:53 (1,356 days old) by anthony (leeds uk)        
i refuse point blank

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to buy any new appliances i will keep my old ones going for as long as possible for exa\mple my lawn mower packed up this summer [20 year old flymo]i just went on ebay and got another for 6 pounds it was filthy and the blade was blunt i soon put that right a good clean and its fine .Also this year the pump went on my 17 year old hotpoint washer i bought a cheap pump of an indesit machjne and with a bit of doctoring i fitted that to the hotpoint its also working well i simply will not buy any of the rubbish thats on offer today .Only last week my daughter asked me to look at her week old steam iron when i asked what was wrong with it she said nothing dad but can you put a longer flex on it it only had 1 metre of cable fitted and a cheap plug need i go on

Post# 257440 , Reply# 33   11/24/2013 at 01:03 (1,339 days old) by Jaker15 (Meridian, ID)        
The times have changed, haven't they?

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Well, it's no wonder why my 1949 Electrolux Model XXX still works almost like new...it's made to last! It has more metal than our $1000 Miele, which, despite being German-made, still has that cheap, plastic feel to it.

Post# 258408 , Reply# 34   12/3/2013 at 08:07 (1,330 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Well.. I took to tidying out my large spare room last night and discovered two things that are unselfishly made in China. One was bought two years ago and still works as good as new, the other is 10 years old and made in China - both are still made in China and they're not rubbish.

What are they?

A 3 speed desk fan and a slow cooker.


Post# 258440 , Reply# 35   12/3/2013 at 13:19 (1,330 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        

In the UK a number of agencies were out & about telling all and sundry that we were paying too much for large items, indeed we even got labelled "rip off Britain". Thus, demands were made for retail prices to be lowered, and this was done.

We are now all paying the "price" of the savings which had to be made in order to achieve the lower retail prices.


Post# 258443 , Reply# 36   12/3/2013 at 13:46 (1,330 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA)        

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I hope this makes sense, 90 mins sleep. They can make pretty good stuff, IF you want to pay for it, they just make a lot more cheap sh-t. Of course for that money you could have bought it made here to start with.

Post# 258576 , Reply# 37   12/4/2013 at 22:14 (1,328 days old) by gmerkt (Edmonds, WA)        

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We've been inundated with shoddy Chinese-made products for long enough now that an entire generation doesn't know the difference between crap and quality. It's pathetic. They take the u-put-it-together thing out of the box, fumble with cheap fittings, and when it's "together" don't even realize what a waste of money it was.

I think there is some degree of opportunism involved in this, too. Sometimes the price is way more than it should be because X number of buyers simply don't know the difference.

Then there has always been some part of the population that doesn't know sh*t from Shinola anyway. But now that mindset has become fairly universal.

Re. the comment about their (I forget the exact words used) tried and true LG finally giving up the ghost after eight years. That's way too short a life for a laundry machine. In my own view, anyway. I expect laundry machines to have a life in service of significantly more than eight years. Is LG really thought of as a premium brand? Their vacuum cleaners are just more Korean/Chinese krap.

When we moved into the place we're in, some 27+ years ago, we needed new laundry machines. We abandoned our former Norge units when we moved from California and those were about 12 years old. We couldn't bring them with us. The need for new machines here caused me to "go Maytag" and it was a wise decision. We still have the same machines, fairly basic units and by no means top of the line. The washing machine has never been worked on. The electric drier I've had to replace the belt once and service the drum rollers three times. All the other stuff including timers is original. Maytag used to be a unique product made in its own factory, and I realize that Maytag no longer enjoys this reality nor their former reputation. And that is unfortunate.

I learned the lesson all over again with diswashing machines. This house had a Kitchenaid in it when be bought the place. When it reached about 18 years of age, it became uneconomically repairable. I'd already repaired the pump a couple of times. Then I replaced it with a Hotpoint, one of those that is like 90% of the other dishwashers in the USA. It was a noisy piece of junk that lasted about four years and I was glad it wore out. I replaced it with a Swedish Asko, which has been a great machine. Should I say mechanical timer? Yes!! I put it in over 13 years ago and it's still going strong. When my mother needed to buy a new one, Asko wasn't available in her area but Bosch was, I recommended it, and that's what she's got. People go to Home Depot, see what's for sale and think the higher priced units are the best. Not necessarily. The Asko and the Bosch were not the most expensive, but they cost more than comparable machines. People might shrink at spending more $ for a machine with no more visible capability, but longer life in service usually more than makes up for the additional up-front cost.


Post# 258590 , Reply# 38   12/5/2013 at 03:46 (1,328 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)        
Well in the UK

...it has got to the point that some white goods are so cheap to buy that consumers simply will not pay for a better quality, rather they favour something very cheap, with a view to changing it more often than they may have done in the past.

I do not like this idea per-se, but then no consumer can be blamed for being in this mind set when you see the minimal prices which some goods can be bought for.


Post# 258594 , Reply# 39   12/5/2013 at 06:53 (1,328 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Yes and similarly when said cheap appliance breaks down and owner tries to get parts in, it is difficult.

Post# 258871 , Reply# 40   12/7/2013 at 21:01 (1,325 days old) by director12 (Metuchen, NJ)        

My old laundry appliances were GE. While made in America, the parts were from China. I now have an Electrolux and Bosch washer and dryer. After my GE units died, I decided to never buy GE ever again.

Post# 258876 , Reply# 41   12/7/2013 at 21:55 (1,325 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)        
director12

kirbyclassiciii's profile picture
My solution: buy VERY OLD GE stuff.

~Ben


Post# 258908 , Reply# 42   12/8/2013 at 09:40 (1,325 days old) by director12 (Metuchen, NJ)        

I would, but my father doesn't approve of owning vintage appliances. I mean, my 32-year old brother has vintage appliances in his ranch house up in Levitown, PA.

Post# 258918 , Reply# 43   12/8/2013 at 10:50 (1,325 days old) by danemodsandy (Waterloo, IA)        
William:

danemodsandy's profile picture
It's too bad your father feels the way he does. Vintage appliances are not only fun and cool, they're CHEAP.

I recently bagged a General Electric range from 1972, the Model J 370. It's a 30-inch range, only one model away from the top-of-the-line. It has a lighted control panel, P*7 self-cleaning, an automatically timed oven and an automatically timed convenience outlet. There is a Sensi-Temp burner that is thermostatically controlled like an electric skillet; you dial a temperature and the burner will not exceed it. That same burner also has Coil Select; you can set the burner so that only 4 inches, or six inches or eight inches of its surface will heat, maximizing efficiency with smaller pieces of cookware. There is also a griddle that fits on the Sensi-Temp burner; you need never worry about burning pancakes, bacon and the like. Many of these features are not available on today's ranges, at any price.

Cost? Fifty dollars, and every single thing on it works. It is all porcelain outside; there is NOTHING painted on its exterior.

My Maytag 806 pair (1968) was all of $75. The KitchenAid KDS-55 dishwasher (1966) was free. My Amana RR-4D microwave (1974) was $6. My Singer Touch-Tronic 2001 sewing machine (1978) was $130, in the top-of-the-iine Flip 'n Sew cabinet.

Yes, I've put some money, time and expertise into repairing certain things on a couple of appliances, but nothing like what it would cost to buy new stuff. And nothing new comes close to the quality I have.

So, while I respect your dad's preference, I also hope that one day he'll be in someone's house and see vintage appliances doing their job - safely, effectively and economically. Maybe the light bulb will go on over his head!

P.S.: The photo below is my "new" range. Now I ask you - does that LOOK like an old, broken-down piece of crap?


Post# 258926 , Reply# 44   12/8/2013 at 11:46 (1,325 days old) by director12 (Metuchen, NJ)        
Let me think...

No, it doesn't.

Post# 258936 , Reply# 45   12/8/2013 at 12:36 (1,325 days old) by danemodsandy (Waterloo, IA)        
You Think That's Something:

danemodsandy's profile picture
Yep, it looks pretty much like new outside. But with a good cleaning, so can many ranges.

Here's the real kicker - the inside of a forty-one-year-old oven. See how she gleams! That's old-time self-cleaning for you.


Post# 258973 , Reply# 46   12/8/2013 at 15:54 (1,324 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA)        

suckolux's profile picture
Damn, jealous!

Post# 259004 , Reply# 47   12/8/2013 at 16:59 (1,324 days old) by danemodsandy (Waterloo, IA)        
David:

danemodsandy's profile picture
Don't be jealous - that range represents a four-year search across the entire Midwest. At that, I was not the one who found it - a friend in Wausau, WI (polkanut69 here) turned it up on his local Craiglist. Had it not been for him, I would STILL be searching!

What was absolutely wonderful was that another friend was traveling across the Midwest to pick up a Frigidaire washer and dryer for himself, and he brought the range to me - no shipping hassles at all, and the gentlest care it could possibly have had along the way.

Here's another shot of it - this time, the cooktop, showing the controls more closely. You can also see the Sensi-Temp sensor in the middle of the large burner at the right front. The small knob at far right is the Coil Select switch, and the burner control immediately to the left of the Coil Select is the Sensi-Temp control:


Post# 259006 , Reply# 48   12/8/2013 at 17:00 (1,324 days old) by danemodsandy (Waterloo, IA)        
Close-Up:

danemodsandy's profile picture
And here's a really close shot of the Sensi-Temp controls:

Post# 259030 , Reply# 49   12/8/2013 at 22:15 (1,324 days old) by vac-o-matic (Saint Louis, Mo.)        

Wow, that's a purdy stove! Hard to believe it's age. I have acquired a Kitchenaid dishwasher from the mid 80's, still a Hobart product. Old Kenmore is pulled out, still waiting for the KA to go in. The couple I bought it from was rehabbing their kitchen and said it worked fine, just wanted all new. Hope it works ok!

Post# 259324 , Reply# 50   12/12/2013 at 17:53 (1,320 days old) by director12 (Metuchen, NJ)        

Yeah, lets hope it works.

Post# 261003 , Reply# 51   12/28/2013 at 02:50 (1,305 days old) by cocoaboo48 (ny 11418)        
China products

I agree that the vacuums and other appliances from China are junk. The average lifespan of China made vacuums is less than 5 years. I have 1950's Hoover Connies that are still working great. Also the Kirby is good if you don't mind the clumsiness of them. My Kirby is very tough. One can vacuum up nails with it and it will be fine! Other things to avoid from China are pet foods or treats. All pet toys and toys for children. They use lead paint. Also don't buy human food either from China it is poison.

Post# 261011 , Reply# 52   12/28/2013 at 06:17 (1,305 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

Vacuum nails with your Kirby--how many fans have you gone through?Just wondering.I use the Shop Vac for nails.Save my Kirby for less demanding cleaning jobs that don't involve nails.

Post# 261093 , Reply# 53   12/29/2013 at 07:27 (1,304 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
I really don't mind where the appliance is made - as long as it holds up and I've had a few Chinese made vacuums that have lasted for more than 5 years - of all the appliances I have had that have been made Chinese made that don't last have been hand mixers. They burn out too early if, like me you're a seasonal baker.

However, the biggest surprise is my Chinese made hand stick blender - it is made by a budget company and it is still working after being bought in 2002!

I think it comes down to personal experience.

I wouldn't dream of ever using a Kirby to vacuum up nails or hard grit. They're made to last but they're not made to be abused. I'm pretty sure the average American home that doesn't have loose nails embedded in all of the carpet!


Post# 261172 , Reply# 54   12/30/2013 at 04:00 (1,303 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

I hope folks don't have nails in their carpets-wouldn't want to walk around in there barefoot-you would need steel sole shoes!

Post# 261270 , Reply# 55   12/30/2013 at 21:47 (1,302 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)        

kirbyclassiciii's profile picture
I'd buy an old Sunbeam Mixmaster "Burst of Power" hand mixer even if it reads "Assembled in Mexico" on it. My parents once had a model 3-76 Mixmaster Heavy Duty in almond that dated from circa 1980.

~Ben


Post# 329878 , Reply# 56   7/22/2015 at 17:57 (733 days old) by moderneezer (Gatineau, Quebec, Canada)        

If you people support quality in products and oppose downgrading, here's an article you might want to print.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO moderneezer's LINK

Post# 329884 , Reply# 57   7/22/2015 at 20:54 (733 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Ha. The poster likes Bosch products. Good luck trying to convince yourself that a Bosch cylinder vac is better than Miele. IMHO they're flimsy, difficult to find bags for and everything fits on friction fit. Not as durable as Miele and not as well made.

Post# 329900 , Reply# 58   7/22/2015 at 22:51 (733 days old) by paulinroyton (Royton, Lancashire)        
Miele

I have always been a big fan of Miele products. Some years ago my partner bought me a Miele upright for Xmas, can't remember the model number but it was yellow in colour. I tried it out on Xmas day and it sounded like a tractor. On Boxing Day we took it back to currys and it was exchanged for a new one. I had that for a few months and the bag full indicator kept on falling out every time I changed the bag, underneath the 2 plastic side suction channels kept falling out.

I found it very heavy, the hose very short. At this moment in time I am using a vintage Hoover senior. Never lets me down, cheap for bags and belts.

Paul


Post# 329911 , Reply# 59   7/23/2015 at 02:25 (733 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

Made in China products-a Quote from the Classic Refuse Trucks site-check it out-it is very interesting-they have many videos of trash trucks crushing and smashing stuff.From one of their videos--"Made in China-BURIED in the USA!!"One video shows the packer blade--close up shot-smashing a Chinese made tabletop stereo unit!!The New Way packer vs the stereo-we know who won!Oh yes--the NuWay trash truck body was built in the USA!!It was mounted on a Japanese Isuzu chassis.

Post# 329913 , Reply# 60   7/23/2015 at 05:48 (733 days old) by kenkart (Mocksville, NC)        
There is NO EXCUSE!

With all the so called"Technology" of today, why America cant produce BETTER produts than they did 50 years ago...but wait, they didn't have to worry about things like the EPA and other governmental regulations...I still say ,when I see coal smoke, that means a factory is RUNNING!

Post# 329915 , Reply# 61   7/23/2015 at 06:27 (733 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

Yes,smoke emitting from factory smokestacks is--A GOOD SIGN!!!!MORE!!!

Post# 329940 , Reply# 62   7/23/2015 at 13:04 (733 days old) by human (Pines of Carolina)        

human's profile picture
Unfortunately, shoddy quality is a common symptom of centrally planned economies because the primary measure of "productivity" is units produced. In that equation, quantity trumps quality.

That said, China is capable of producing high quality goods when that is what the client specifies. A classic example is the Minolta camera company. In the mid '80s, when they were turning their attention to autofocus 35mm SLR cameras, they shifted manufacturing of their manual focus 35mm SLR cameras to a factory in China that had for years been producing near-perfect knockoffs of their products under brand names like "Seagull". Under the watchful eye of Minolta engineers, this former bootleg camera manufacturer went legit, turning out products that were every bit as good as those previously made it Minolta's own factories in Japan and Malaysia. Ironically, the Chinese factory was permitted to continue producing its own line of "Seagull" branded cameras based on Minolta designs, which were sold in markets where Minolta did not compete.


Post# 330089 , Reply# 63   7/25/2015 at 11:41 (731 days old) by moderneezer (Gatineau, Quebec, Canada)        

Here's a video about crappy Chinese-made products.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO moderneezer's LINK

Post# 330096 , Reply# 64   7/25/2015 at 13:08 (731 days old) by gottahaveahoove (Pittston, Pennsylvania, 18640)        
OMG I'm dying

gottahaveahoove's profile picture

bacause it's funny AND tragic at the same time.  I've gon out of my way (you HAVE to) to buy American.


Post# 330123 , Reply# 65   7/25/2015 at 18:19 (730 days old) by moderneezer (Gatineau, Quebec, Canada)        

Another article you might be interested in.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO moderneezer's LINK

Post# 330369 , Reply# 66   7/28/2015 at 19:07 (727 days old) by gusherb (Chicago/NW Indiana)        

gusherb's profile picture
Quality has become so laughably awful that I almost ALWAYS go out of my way to find a higher quality alternative then to whatever is in the Box Store.
When I look around me I don't see too many things made in China. My shoes are made in the USA, as well as one pair of flip flops and the other pair is made in brazil. My Nalgene that I drink out of is also US made. The only things I see in front of me that are high quality and made in China are this Macbook I type on, and the iPhone next to me.

I don't even question paying more for US made or high quality things over cheap crap. In fact alot of the time my tastes draw me to the higher quality/US made stuff without me even realizing it.


Post# 331576 , Reply# 67   8/12/2015 at 18:01 (712 days old) by moderneezer (Gatineau, Quebec, Canada)        

Now here's one of my favorite videos!

CLICK HERE TO GO TO moderneezer's LINK


Post# 331611 , Reply# 68   8/13/2015 at 02:42 (712 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

A video played after the one linked--showing cameras built in China are weighted with peices of lead to make you think they are heavy and high quality!

Post# 331659 , Reply# 69   8/13/2015 at 18:04 (711 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        
Actually not quite.

sebo_fan's profile picture
Actually the video link on there show the handles have lead inside the plastic. It may suggest that cameras are heavier but in actual fact, lead used in cameras are put there to deflect magnetism. So its not always about fleecing the owner. Im not sure whether the owner of that video knows that, other than moan about the lead being inside the camera. Having weight to a camera ensures a better pic than a light one that can be moved too easily.

Post# 331669 , Reply# 70   8/13/2015 at 21:12 (711 days old) by human (Pines of Carolina)        
Cheapo camera

human's profile picture
That camera the guy smashed looked like a pretty cheapo model, so the lead may well have been there to add heft or perhaps even rigidity. It certainly wasn't there to counterbalance the weight of the lens.

Post# 331685 , Reply# 71   8/14/2015 at 04:12 (711 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

Being non-magnetic lead will not deflect magnetism.Steel,iron or other magnetic materials will.The lead peices in the cameras were just strange to me-never thought you would find lead in a camera! Yes,the lead can help you hold the camera more steady.Then Of course you can use a benchrest for the rifle and a tripod for the camera.its like with rifles-I like a heavier one so I can get a steadier hold-and with large calibers-the recoil is actually less.A lightweight rifle in a magnum caliber can bring tears to your eyes from the recoil!Now back to our other subject now in progress.

Post# 331689 , Reply# 72   8/14/2015 at 06:29 (711 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
Respectively though, youre not going to take a tripod everywhere you go and adding steel to a camera's basic design would raise the cost.

Post# 331741 , Reply# 73   8/14/2015 at 23:05 (710 days old) by blknblu (CT)        

disposable ...

I was given one of those fancy Ninja blenders from my BIL.

Something internal broke and he purchased another and gave me the old one.

turns out a common problem is a plastic gear inside breaks. Parts are non-existant for them, and the manufacturer is no help. There are some innovators that came up with something, but I decided it was not worth it.

 

Remember the Elctrolux commercial where Mr. McKee mentioned 20 years for the life of the vacuum?

I believe he mentioned the year 2000.


Post# 331795 , Reply# 74   8/15/2015 at 21:03 (709 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)        

sebo_fan's profile picture
And yet the American Jack La Lanne juicer which part of it was made in China by the Princess company is now going on its 20th year in our family. It gets used frequently. I believe there are parts available for it other than the recovery bin which is like gold dust. I wouldn't have any other juicer but the JLL design; so effective and so efficient. Shame they're so hard to find in the UK now.

Post# 374923 , Reply# 75   7/5/2017 at 12:34 by william (Philadelphia)        
Nobody mentions Speed Queen?

No love for Speed Queen? Still made in Wisconsin and hands down the best in quality for washers and dryers! Not sure if they make dishwashers.

Bill


Post# 374965 , Reply# 76   7/6/2017 at 17:02 by JustJunque (MA)        

Hey Bill,

The wife and I only recently discovered that Speed Queen makes residential washers and dryers.
We're currently using an American made Amana washer that came with the house, but when it eventually does expire, we're planning on going Speed Queen.

We got married in 2002, and we've had more than one conversation about how many things we received as wedding gifts were made in the U.S.A., even that recently, but no longer are.
For example; all of the towels, washcloths, etc., as well as bedding were all American made.
Try finding that now!

There's a company called 1888 Mills, who does make towels and washcloths in America. They seem higher priced than the foreign made ones you find in the big stores, and harder to find, but to me, it's worth it.

Barry


Post# 374983 , Reply# 77   7/7/2017 at 10:13 by vacerator (Macomb Michigan)        
Alliance laundry systems

(Speed Queen) is in Ripon Wisconsin.
Quality made by proud union people!
I summise that because a Montreal teachers union is/was the major share holder, Scott Walker, the governor was unable to break their union, unlike the Wisconsin teachers.
In South Korea, for example, teachers are highly paid and regarded as a doctor is.


Post# 374989 , Reply# 78   7/7/2017 at 15:16 by anthony (leeds uk)        
my 18 month old

anthony's profile picture
iron packed up last week [since bought a new one ]so instead of chucking it i decided to take it apart and see what was wrong .After a little investigating and testing i found the fault .the element and the variable thermostat were ok the thing stopping it working was the totally pointless electronics in the handle that switches the iron off if its not been moved for a while .Simple fix bypassed the electronics put it back together and its working perfectly being switched on and off by the thermostat just like its vintage predecessors

Post# 375005 , Reply# 79   7/8/2017 at 06:15 by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

There are a FEW Chinese goods that are actually decent quality.A Reliable 1500 rotary cloth cutter I just bought is very well made.Spare parts are included with the $179 dollar purchase-manual,extra blades-sharpening stones and motor brushes.The machine can cut cloth to 1 in thick!Its as easy to use as a circular saw in wood.Not all Chinese goods are abad.So they can't get all of the blame.

Post# 375020 , Reply# 80   7/8/2017 at 14:09 by Turbomaster1984 (Ripley, Derbyshire)        
Pointless Electronics

turbomaster1984's profile picture
Whilst it might be a very personal preference I'd just like to point out that to some (myself included) such electronics can very much be a life saver. Having personally experienced the demise and death of someone suffering dementure it can be a close call between taking someone's independence away versus letting them carry on with their regular routine. Irons carry such safety devices for very good reason.

Appliances with auto shut offs are a boon for all in my opinion, they save so much heartache and misery in the long run. This part of the iron only failed and rendered the iron useless just as much as a faulty fuse or heating element would. Old appliances are not all as worthy as some like to make out, I've had too many vintage irons get far too hot due to faulty thermostats. Probably the very reason they were disposed of anyway.


Post# 375069 , Reply# 81   7/9/2017 at 13:40 by anthony (leeds uk)        
To use your words

anthony's profile picture
[THIS PART OF THE IRON] failed because it was junk electronics.burnt components connected with wires that were far to thin to cope with 2500 watts .In effect it was to flimsy to do the job it was intended to




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