Against the odds.


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Thread Number: 22012
Against the odds.

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Post# 246730 8/20/2013 at 15:35 (3,899 days old) by RootCyclone (East Midlands,UK.)
Checkrate/Likes (If you don't like Dyson then leave now, you won't like this) Hi all, This popped through the door for me, a kinda late birthday present. I've always wanted this book, and now i have it! Against the Odds - James Dyson. An Autobiography. Gonna start reading it as soon as! There are some interesting 'rough' sketches inside of it including ones of 'Dual Cyclone' technology. Also explains about one of James' first inventions, the 'Ball Barrow.' Those of whom know Dyson pretty well will know what i'm on about. Who else has this book anyways?

Post# 246736 , Reply# 1 8/20/2013 at 15:52 (3,899 days old) by singingrainbow (Texas)
Checkrate/Likes *I have one* My copy was given to be by a dyson rep at the 2002 VDTA show in San Antonio when I was six. It got lost and I only recently found and read it. It is a good read and I think you will like it. Although there was admittedly a little misinformation, I still enjoyed it. Scott

Post# 246737 , Reply# 2 8/20/2013 at 15:52 (3,899 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)
Checkrate/Likes I once leafed through a copy of it at the library. I doubt anyone would say that the man (Dyson) had no guts, drive, and determination to do what he did and to get where his is. However, that does not mean I have to agree with his principles, nor do I think his success was due to a 'better' design of vacuum cleaner.

Post# 246739 , Reply# 3 8/20/2013 at 16:02 (3,899 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)
Checkrate/Likes I have an original copy of the book that I actually bought in a charity shop for less than 50p!

Post# 246741 , Reply# 4 8/20/2013 at 16:09 (3,899 days old) by turbomaster1984 (Ripley, Derbyshire)
Checkrate/Likes *hmmmm* Leafed thru it and what I read he came across as a self important, pompous, and ignorant idiot. Ditto what Vintagerepairer said.

Post# 246742 , Reply# 5 8/20/2013 at 16:21 (3,899 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)
Checkrate/Likes 1 I second what Rob and Benny have said. I read bits of it, but generally found he came across as very arrogant and self-centred. He also rarely mentions any of the support he had along the way, or says "thank you" to anyone. As much as I accept that it is his autobiography, it's very ME ME ME and, in life, we are inevitably influenced by other people which he doesn't acknowledge. I also think the success of Dyson is entirely based on clever marketing techniques and not actual product. Dyson fooled people into thinking they need a bagless machine, which wasn't the case. Especially when compared with the DC01, there were cheaper, better vacuums available, yet clever, almost brain washing, marketing strategies caught on.

Post# 246743 , Reply# 6 8/20/2013 at 16:37 (3,899 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)
Checkrate/Likes 1 *lever, almost brain washing, marketing strategies* I can't argue with that per-se, but as I said a good deal of times before, human beings are generally rather disloyal creatures and are like sponges for a change. Dyson offered something which was appealing for a market of eager-to-try-something-else consumers simply soaked up. Let us review some facts: Until 1992, few people in the UK had seen or heard of a DC01; His cleaner was could be as much as 300% more expensive than a basic machine, and certainly 50-100% more than what most consumers would normally have paid; His 'brand' had no known reliability; The build quality was visibly poorer (and certainly physically so); The whole thing looked cheap, although Dolly Parton was once heard to say [of her own appearance] "You have no idea just how much it costs to look THIS cheap" and in the case of a Dyson DC01 I think the figure was �199.99, if my failing memory is correct.

Post# 246811 , Reply# 7 8/20/2013 at 23:08 (3,898 days old) by man114 (Buffalo NY)
Checkrate/Likes I've never owned a DC01 livng here in the states but how was the build quality "visibly poorer"? IONA licensed the technology and build what would become the Fantom Thunder and it was considerably sturdier (though not neccessarily more reliable) than most department store vacuums of the time. Its not like they were the largest of companies at the time. I mean there was as much weight to one of those early Fantoms as there was in like 3 of the readily available Dirt Devils of that timeframe. If it was cheaply built what prevented Dyson from building it better?

Post# 246825 , Reply# 8 8/21/2013 at 01:44 (3,898 days old) by SeamusUK (Dover Kent UK)
Checkrate/Likes *Well in all honesty* I would have to agree with Rob's comments above- the man is an arrogant deluded self centered..... I do have a couple of Dyson's but they are both collectable, one being virtually unused and boxed. I would never buy a new one and well as for using any bagless as a daily driver.....It's not going to happen!! Seamus

Post# 246832 , Reply# 9 8/21/2013 at 03:14 (3,898 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)
Checkrate/Likes *visibly poorer* Plastic was hard, shiny, and thin. There were no tailored recesses to store the tools, rather the 4-peiece tool kit was simply shoved onto two plastic lumps on each side of the cleaner for storage, with two of the tools having to be stuck onto two of the others (the back-to-back adapter sat on one side, with the crevice tool on the other; onto that the small tool and dusting brush were fitted) and this was not only considerably unsightly when compared to other cleaners on sale at that time, but also highly impractical as the tools were easily knocked off the sides when using the cleaner as an upright. The base plate was incredibly thin and soft, and the mains lead a good deal shorter than others available in the same price bracket. On the cylinder model, suction power was low, and the cleaner was large and bulky to pull round, with no furniture guard on the cleaner. It also lacked electronic power control which, whilst I understand is not necessary for every consumer, was something which people who paid that sort of money would always have looked for. So without it, there was the potential to have alienated an section of the target market. I cannot compare UK Dyson cleaners to that of the Fantom Thunder as I have never seen the latter(other than in a photograph, and they don't look the same) so it would be completely unfair for anyone in this position to do the same. I also know very little about the quality of vacuum cleaners sold in the USA. All I do know is what the USA cleaners sold in the UK were like, and to that end I can only compare the Dyson to that of the Dirt Devil and Electrolux Widetrack cleaners. In those examples, I would be happy to say that the quality of the Dyson was on a par; however, neither Dirt Devil, Electrolux Widetrack, and Dyson, were a match for the quailty of the Hoover, UK Electrolux, Hitachi, Vax, Panasonic, Morphy Richards, Meile, and many, many more cleaners on sale here at that time.

Post# 246833 , Reply# 10 8/21/2013 at 03:18 (3,898 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)
Checkrate/Likes *what prevented Dyson from building it better?* Presumably he thought it was good enough as it was. Clearly the cleaners were robust enough to make the initial sales, and from there the attraction grew, so sales boomed. And on it went. The original Dyson cleaners were subject to countless modifications as the years progressed, and as for the hose, it must have cost the company tens of thousands in replacements sent under warranty. The thin, brittle plastic was used from 1993 until around 2005 if not later, when it was finally changed to something softer for the main parts of the cleaner. The effects of the sun on a Dyson cleaner can be catastrophic.

Post# 246834 , Reply# 11 8/21/2013 at 03:24 (3,898 days old) by dysondestijl (east midlands, UK)
Checkrate/Likes 1 I have this book. (Well the hardback version) I have to disagree to what has been said! James dyson was in so much debt at the time of wanting to develop his Vacuum Cleaner. Everyone says its about me-me-me, it's an autobiography! You wouldn't expect an autobiography where the person constantly taks about someone else! His machines were visually poorer quality- what? Look at the hoover turbopower series!

Post# 246837 , Reply# 12 8/21/2013 at 03:35 (3,898 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)
Checkrate/Likes 1 *Look at the hoover turbopower series* I was, the turbopower 2 & 3 was exactly what I had in mind when drawing my comparisons. Those cleaners were far superior in build quality to the Dyson. Even the original Turbopower had an edge over Dyson. From comments on your profile, it is easy to see you were merely a babe in arms when the Dyson cleaners went on sale, if indeed you were born at all. On that basis I cannot blame you in anyway for not being able to see the comments in the same way as those who were around at the time and can recall first-hand exactly what the situation was at that time.

Post# 246840 , Reply# 13 8/21/2013 at 04:19 (3,898 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom)
Checkrate/Likes I've got a copy and have read it, it's a good read. He does come across me me me as has been said, but it is an autobiography! Probably wont read it again though, so it's in the car boot box now to be sold!

Post# 246844 , Reply# 14 8/21/2013 at 04:52 (3,898 days old) by hi-loswitch98 ()
Checkrate/Likes 1 I remember someone saying on here that Dyson didn't invent the Cyclone System - he saw giant ones at a sawmill & decided to put it in a Vacuum Cleaner. But funnily enough - he brainwashed people into thinking that Bags Clog, but every Vacuum that's bagged I've had & used has never lost suction, it's always been as strong as when the bag was empty.

Post# 246854 , Reply# 15 8/21/2013 at 05:30 (3,898 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)
Checkrate/Likes *You wouldn't expect an autobiography where the person co* As I've already said, we are constantly influenced in life by the decisions of others - our parents, friends, peers, other family members, colleagues. I read a lot of autobiographies and have to say that most, if not all, apart from Against All Odds, acknowledge the influence of other people and mention encounters with the, moments in life that they have been inspired or even demotivated by other people. James Dyson tends to waffle on about how brilliant HE is, without a thought for those around him. I'm in agreement with Benny, there were far better built, higher performing vacuums on the market at the time. Infact, Which? slated the DC01 and rightly so. Hoover, Hitachi, Panasonic and Electrolux were all manufacturing better cleaners. Infact, really, the only cleaner on a par with the DC01 build quality wise was the Goblin Laser, retailing at less than 1/3 of the price. Don't get me wrong, new Dysons have improved dramatically. Even the difference between the DC01 and 04 is astounding. But the DC01 was the leap of success for Dyson and, contrary to what James Dyson says, the success of the cleaner was entirely due to clever marketing NOT a high performing product. From 1993 - 2001, there were better, higher performing, better built and cheaper cleaners available.

Post# 246857 , Reply# 16 8/21/2013 at 05:48 (3,898 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom)
Checkrate/Likes I agree, I;ve never really had a bagged machine clog on me to the point of uselessness. The bag indicator is broken on the Miele, and I don't really notice until the dirt coems out of the bag (have to take the hose off to put it under the bed where it lives). I have had bagged machines loose suction, but mainly when vacuuming up lots of dust or using cheap sh*te bags. I find Dysons clog up much more than bagged. The few I've had recently couldnt suck up shredded paper before a refurb and cyclone stripdown! Work great after, but I normally only give them a few years before they are back to their old selves

Post# 246859 , Reply# 17 8/21/2013 at 05:56 (3,898 days old) by hi-loswitch98 ()
Checkrate/Likes 1 Exactly Beko1987, unless you are using really cheap bags or clogged filters then bagged machines don't lose suction. Qualtex make great copy bags, as do Wilko.

Post# 246861 , Reply# 18 8/21/2013 at 06:12 (3,898 days old) by madabouthoovers ()
Checkrate/Likes The biggest lie Dyson make is that a Dyson doesn't loose suction - oh yes it does, and some more than others, as they are all dependent on clean filters, and no matter how efficient the cyclone is at separating the dirt from the airflow, the filters will eventually clog up - and the amount of Dysons I see on Ebay for spares or repairs saying that they work, but suction is poor, is quite staggering. People will learn one day that Dysons are not all they are cracked up to be, and that they certainly aint worth the hundreds of pounds that Dyson ask for them. Dysons have also become much smaller than they used to be, and the bin capacity of some of them now is laughable, with the full mark a couple of inches from the base of the bin, and the rest of the bin taken up by the cyclone assembly - this is more pronounced on the cylinder models. Sooner or later, people will ditch Dyson and now that Vax and Hoover are making better multi-cyclonics for a fraction of the price, people are trying them out and realising they are just as good, if not better than Dysons and better value too. I only have to read the Argos vac reviews to find this out. James Dyson maybe selfish and greedy for as much wealth as possible - but his bubble will burst eventually. When he moved all production off to the far East, and laid off hundreds of British workers at Malmesbury, I lost most respect for him, and saw him for the greedy fatcat tycoon that he really is. My newest Dyson is a Dc15, and I wont be buying anything newer as quite frankly I think they are overpriced and over-rated now. Having seen the build quality of the DC41 in Currys, and how bendy and weak the main spine of it is, I am unimpressed - especially as Dyson is wanting over £400 for it. "A fool and his money are easily parted" springs to mind when thinking of Dyson customers nowadays - especially those who think Dysons are bargains. Here is an example of how people are now turning against Dysons - this is a review for the Vax Mach Air Pet from Argos Great value fantastic cleaner Posted04 June 2013 By sbod From:Hampshire Age:25 to 34 Gender:Female "Was considering investing in a Dyson but couldn't justify the cost as this was on special thought I would try it and it is worth every penny. I have a long haired cat and dog and both shed at the same time this has been a god send. Highly recommend this great vacuum." Yes, I recommend this product. 4 / 5 Dyson destroyer Posted09 August 2013 By Andy From:Bedford Age:35 to 44 Gender:Male "Needed to replace my trusty dyson after 10 years of service.finally decided on this vax model and i am not disappointed.this thing could eat my old dyson for breakfast and still carry on to clean the rest of the house.it has a relatively small collection chamber compared to the dyson so you need to empty frequently,but thats a small price to pay for such a powerful vacuum cleaner.6 year warranty,half price in the sale,im very happy.." Yes, I recommend this product. +1point 1of 1voted this as helpful. Helpful? This post was last edited 08/21/2013 at 07:02

Post# 246881 , Reply# 19 8/21/2013 at 07:30 (3,898 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)
Checkrate/Likes Madabouthoovers, as much as I agree with you, one cannot judge the performance of a cleaner based on Argos reviews. My neighbour recently did this and leaned the hard way. She has a Vax single cyclone upright that got 5 star reviews on Argos and she absolutely hates it. Argos shoppers also have the Argos value bagless upright good reviews, but we know better

Post# 246885 , Reply# 20 8/21/2013 at 07:42 (3,898 days old) by madabouthoovers ()
Checkrate/Likes Yes, the Argos Value upright made by Vax - its just a small version of the Power VX2 I think. The thing is that even though the Argos Value uprights may be naff by our standards, people overlook their flaws due to their cheap price, and tend to think - Ah well, its cheap, what do I expect? The main problem with Argos reviews is that they email me within a few weeks of buying a vac (where I reserve it on my account that is, and then go in and buy one) asking me to do a review. Usually I have a good feeling for a vac in that time, but other people may not have had their vac ling enough to have to clean the pleated filters or had it clog up etc, so give a favourable review. That also goes for Dyson customers who think that their new Dyson is the mutt's nuts, but have yet to have a brushroll motor failure so common on the DC24, or plastics snap off, that Dysons also do well. All I am saying is that people are hard up in this day and age, but Dyson just thinks we are still living in the mid noughties, when folks had loads of cash to spend on his expensive cleaners - that's not the case and more people are now very price-conscious, and Vax/Hoover are realising this by pricing their cleaners much more realistically - nearer the £100 mark for many of them now, and many new Hoovers and Vaxes are good vacs if you don't get a "Friday afternoon model" riddled with manufacturing defects. I've been impressed with my Vax Zoom model, despite it being only a "single cyclone", and it was a sixth of the price of a DC41.

Post# 246886 , Reply# 21 8/21/2013 at 07:52 (3,898 days old) by hi-loswitch98 ()
Checkrate/Likes You're right though madabouthoovers - my school bought a load of Dyson DC33's, they all broke withtin 1 month! Needless to say they tried to send them back but Dyson refused as they had been used in a Commercial Environment. They bought a loads of Henry's instead. Much cheaper & have lasted longer than 1 month! Plus why buy a Dyson Ball when you can have a Hoover Globe... Also, I have never seen a Dyson with 12.5m cord like on the Hoover Turbo Power!

Post# 246889 , Reply# 22 8/21/2013 at 08:22 (3,898 days old) by RootCyclone (East Midlands,UK.)
Checkrate/Likes *Now Now!* Hang on one second. Vax - they copy Dyson, they do not work the same AT ALL. Poorly built and designed and not ergonomic to use. Where as with Dyson machines, they are easy to use and maintain. Powerful and always fun to use. But, Dyson's do NOT lose suction when full. Just look at bagged cleaners like the Hoover Junior, James didn't like that because it wasn't efficient. It was also lacking in design features. I personally don't mind the Hoover Junior, just the paper bags that let it down. But as a vintage cleaner, is always good to have in a collection. At the end of the day, it is the choice of the CONSUMER on what vacuum they want. Not the collector. For instance, my Mum, does not particular like vacuums. But her choice is Dyson because it is QUALITY. She doesn't want a Vax. A quote from the book i have: 'I invited someone to test out the DC01. Hit the Dyson i Said. She did. Then i said, no REALLY hit it! And the hammer kept bouncing off. Hit the Sebo, it smashed with one hit.' QUALITY PEOPLE, QUALITY!!! Hence why my mum has bought a Dyson ever since the first, the DC01. And if your wondering why James moved production to the far east, it was because of the local council in Wiltshire. Dyson wanted a Bigger factory to employ more people and make new products. The stupid council turned down the planning application for a bigger factory, so he had no choice but to move! Bear that in mind, and research is VITAL to get a better understanding.

Post# 246893 , Reply# 23 8/21/2013 at 08:38 (3,898 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)
Checkrate/Likes 1 Sorry Root Cyclone - not quite. The only reason James went and invented the cyclone upright was because the Junior he had couldn't reuse the dust bag many times after using the same one well after the initial second time - and wanted to achieve a way where the dust wouldn't clog pores. I say he invent, because he DID INVENT the bagless cyclonic vacuum - he was inspired by a saw mill cyclone method, which is in no way a domestic application in a home for sucking up dirt! I had a few DC01s - I loved the design and as you say it was fun to use - but they were never the best built vacuums and I know from experience of the problems I had with mine that seem to have similar highlights that Benny has pointed out. Leaking filters for one thing to the sole plate having to be replaced several times due to metal frames between rooms from hard floor to carpets. The DC04 was far better built but still had a few problems like plastic catches breaking early on the hose release. Oh yes, Dyson points out that a SEBO bag door will shatter when its hit by a hammer - but when the DC01 sole plate cracks over a metal threshold when in actual use, Dyson turns a blind eye! BRAND NEW Dysons dont tend to loose suction - but they can loose suction when your general consumer ignores the filters on board. Is that the fault of the consumer, all the time? After all, if Dyson continually tells the public about air watts just to prove the suction principle but convieniently forgets to tell them to maintain filters in the same breath, it's hardly true!

Post# 246896 , Reply# 24 8/21/2013 at 08:52 (3,898 days old) by madabouthoovers ()
Checkrate/Likes Old Dysons are very brittle, as I found out when I dropped a DC07 bin assembly on the floor and the turquoise cyclone cones shattered rendering it useless. I also cracked one hitting it on the side of the dustbin. I used to buy old DC07's to do up and sell on, and so many of them had knackered soleplates or broken plastic parts - here is an example of a Dyson quality plastic soleplate - still think they are well built?

Post# 246902 , Reply# 25 8/21/2013 at 09:46 (3,898 days old) by turbomaster1984 (Ripley, Derbyshire)
Checkrate/Likes 2 As we can see there was a fair bit of claptrap in the book. The sebo thing being on of them. Quality is one thing Dyson hasnt ever been and wont ever be like most modern and future cleaners. Just because someones mum has succumbed to the marketing hype dosnt mean its right. Dysons fun to use? Not really. I dont see dust clouds in my face fun, I dont see having to undo the hose assembly fun everytime i see a bit of muck in a corner and want to swipe it out like i can with other tools onboard cleaners. As for efficiency what James Dyson has failed to mention is that yes bagged cleaners do lose suction but they never lost it to the point they couldnt do their jobs. Most bagged cleaners overcompensated with their designs to allow dirt pick up to be as successful with an empty bag than a full bag. Just beccause the power drops dont mean its missing anything. Yes James Dyson is probably the vacuum cleaner industries biggest marketing gimmick god. It was never about his cleaners just creating fears and providing false hopes.

Post# 246905 , Reply# 26 8/21/2013 at 09:51 (3,898 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)
Checkrate/Likes *always fun to use* That is a matter of opinion. I cannot abide using bagless vacuums. Sorry, RootCyclone, but you really need to deal with Dyson criticism - something that James Dyson never seemed remotely able to do.

Post# 246907 , Reply# 27 8/21/2013 at 09:58 (3,898 days old) by hi-loswitch98 ()
Checkrate/Likes Like I said, bagged cleaners I've used have only lost a bit of suction if any, if it's a Henry or Vax 3-in-1, then it will stay the same as the bag fills but say the Electrolux Boss Upright then yes, it will drop, but it won't stop picking up dirt. A bagged vacuum with a full bag would still have more suction than an empty Dyson DC01 anyway, they had poor hose suction.

Post# 246955 , Reply# 28 8/21/2013 at 15:04 (3,898 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)
Checkrate/Likes Well I found it fun to watch the dust go around and around, but eventually one tires of watching dirt spinning around. Better if you pick up some glitter and give your Dyson that personal touch. However, I do agree - the Dyson book is very one sided and quite naturally given that Dyson was knocked back from several companies - however he didn't make it easy for himself and though the bagless cyclonic is a neat idea, it is far from perfect and end of the day, consumers shouldn't be taught about how dirt is sucked up and captured - I mean, honestly if Shanks and other companies went to pains to point out how your waste goes down a U bend in a toilet, would you really want to find out more?

Post# 246966 , Reply# 29 8/21/2013 at 15:52 (3,898 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)
Checkrate/Likes *deal with Dyson criticism - something that James Dyson never* So that's my belly laugh taken care of for the evening. Thank you Turbo500. I am indifferent to Dyson - both the "brand" and the "Sir James". Like a lot of products, it is able to do what it says it says it will do. Whether or not what it does is needed is entirely subjective. Personally, I quite liked the idea of a bagless no-loss-of-suction cleaner, even if my shop did rely heavily on the sales of dustbags. What I did not like about the Dyson cleaners was the appalling build quality and the fact that many of the tried & tested 'good' parts of your Hoover and Electrolux and all the rest of them was tossed aside to make way for a completely new (and in my opinion lousy) way of doing things. Take the tool kits, for example. Not withstanding the likes of Hoover and Philips, practically all other cleaners utilised a straight-forward push-fit tool kit, be it 32mm, 35mm, or whatever else it was. Dyson had a go at that on his uprights and DC02 cylinders. It was a success. So what do they do? They change it on the DC05 and parts start to break. In addition, "Dyson" branded accessories like the floor tool and telescopic tubes were to cost the consumer a small fortune when they broke, and quickly did they see that the savings made on bags was to be spent on replacement parts. I struggle with this, as Sir James has always stated the need to buy aftermarket parts for any product was bad form, which is why in this case he sites it as one reason why he built a bagless cleaner, yet he soon wanted a slice of aftermarket-sales sector, it would seem. He didn't sell bags of course; he sold expensive parts, and not just accessories, but essential parts critical to the continued use of his cleaners. I remember one lady coming to my shop with a DC05 cleaner which had broken extension tubes (she'd taped them up) and also a broken floor tool (rendering the cleaner now useless). She asked for the price of the parts and almost fainted when I told her. I said there is a plan B, and told her the cost of buying a set of generic 32mm push-fit tubes, wand, and floor tool. As I said to her, the existing small tools will still fit, she gets a quality tool kit for a lot less, and as I didn't tell her, I actually made more money on the % mark-up of generic parts as I would have done Dyson genuine. Given the cost of the cleaner when new, and given the relatively short life the genuine parts had offered, the woman was somewhat keen to seek the generic tools option I presented her with. There is one point which I would like to attempt to clarify, however, and that is the issue of the 100% suction. In defense of the Dyson cleaner, it simply has to be remembered that comparing the cyclones and filters of a Dyson with that of A.N.Other is to compare apples with eggs. The filter in a Dyson is nothing more than a pre-motor filter in a bagged cleaner and is there to prevent the fine dust escaping from the machine. As the cyclone tank represents the dustbag, in this instance the Dyson cleaner will never lose suction as a result of the cyclones doing the job of the bag, and this "open ended" system is what the claims refer to. Other bagless cleaners do of course rely on a filter to "close" the end of the dust container, thus the filter is really what plays the part of the dustbag, not the cyclone tank itself. So you see, suction lost on a Dyson through eventual clogging of the pre-motor filter would not constitute a loss of suction as a result of using a bagless dust collection method. Having said all of the above, I think Dyson are a little unaware of the concept of irony; having marketed their cleaner as being such that suction is never lost, when calling their helpline one of the first things the recorded message tells you is what to do if you cleaner is not sucking correctly. Blockages occur and filters clog; of course I know this, but their choice of words is, to my ears, something of a contradiction.

Post# 246967 , Reply# 30 8/21/2013 at 15:56 (3,898 days old) by dysonman1 (the county)
Checkrate/Likes You have to read the book very carefully. While it was his Hoover Junior (a horrible vacuum in my opinion - we had them in the US too) that he made into the his first bagless upright, it was his Vax and it's terrible one-ply clogging vacuum bag that made him mad enough to do something about it. The airflow through a bagged vacuum decreases as the pores of the bag clog. We all know this. It's the velocity (the speed) of the air moving through the machine that needs to be maintained at a high level for good dirt pick up. Just because a vacuum has 'suction' doesn't mean it has sufficient airflow to clean well. This is my autographed copy of James' autobiography. I have read it from cover to cover more than ten times. I can find only one sentence I take exception to. When he made the cardboard cyclone and put it on his poxy Hoover Junior, he wrote "I was the first man in the world with a bagless vacuum cleaner". Of course, the thirteen million people who had already bought Rainbows didn't count I guess.

Post# 246975 , Reply# 31 8/21/2013 at 16:54 (3,898 days old) by thekirbylover (Warrington, cheshire )
Checkrate/Likes 2 *poxy Hoover Junior* I have had a drop in performance but the bag was quite full at the time, here is a video to show that the junior is far from poxy CLICK HERE TO GO TO thekirbylover's LINK

Post# 246976 , Reply# 32 8/21/2013 at 17:02 (3,898 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)
Checkrate/Likes 1 *OK, Tom...* When any Dyson can beat a Hoover Juniors ass, then talk to me. That silly test with the G-force and the Hoover Junior was unfair, the Junior was set too high for that, flat as a silk night gown, carpet so it couldn't make contact the floor correctly! I can guarentee that if they had tested it against a Turbopower 1 as they WERE out in 1983...It would of done WAY better as it is more powerfull and again, I have never found one of those to loose performance drastically when the bag fills, it just continues to pick up relentlessly! I have no idea how James thought the "poxy Hoover Junior" looses suction as I have NEVER found a drop in it's performance!! Do you want to see how bad DC01 really is? Here is a video I made several months ago with a MUCH more powerful vacuum which was on sale at the same time and was much cheaper to buy.

Post# 246978 , Reply# 33 8/21/2013 at 17:08 (3,898 days old) by thekirbylover (Warrington, cheshire )
Checkrate/Likes also rainbow may of been the first but from this video they are awful CLICK HERE TO GO TO thekirbylover's LINK

Post# 246984 , Reply# 34 8/21/2013 at 17:45 (3,898 days old) by parwaz786 ( )
Checkrate/Likes Has anybody read "Doing a Dyson"? Lol

Post# 246985 , Reply# 35 8/21/2013 at 17:49 (3,898 days old) by parwaz786 ( )
Checkrate/Likes Has anybody read "Doing a Dyson"? Lol

Post# 246988 , Reply# 36 8/21/2013 at 18:07 (3,898 days old) by madaboutsebo (Midlands, UK)
Checkrate/Likes 1 *Yes!* Yes I have as I have a copy of 'doing a dyson' and x2 copies of 'Against the odds'! Only because at the time I brought a copy then on a day visit to Dyson HQ they gave everyone a copy! Doing a dyson is more a visual book of pictures and artwork but its interesting to look through showing the development of the DC01 and 02. I was a Dyson fanatic at the time! Although I admire James Dyson and what he has achieved and look on to see what he and his Engineers will come out with next; I don't own a Dyson vacuum cleaner anymore and can not see I ever will in the future! I've gone back to bags and never looked back!

Post# 246993 , Reply# 37 8/21/2013 at 19:07 (3,897 days old) by henrydreyfuss (Ohio)
Checkrate/Likes *I've read it multiple times..* I think it's a terrific book! It drags a bit early on, but picks up, once he starts playing around with cyclones. There's definitely a lot of personal back-patting, but he struggled for a long time, before he had a product on the market. One part of the Dyson story that bothers me a bit, has to do with his trips to vacuum cleaner companies with his original prototype. Still today, he mentions them scoffing at the notion of a bagless vacuum, and how bags make so much money, but I believe that if his vacuum at the time was more like the Cyclon, Amway, DC01, or Original Fantom (early dual-cyclonic uprights), vacuum companies would have been extremely interested. The prototype he took to Hoover, Electrolux, and various other companies was bizarre! It had two enormous upside-down cyclones (or one, and a bin), no clear bin, a tiny cleaner head, and was all-around much different than any of the finished products he got credit for. It still has a wand/hose, and switchover valve like today's Dysons, but I imagine vacuum company executives looking at it, scratching their heads, and struggling to understand the future of home cleaning. More than the cyclone, the on-board hose intrigued companies, and the idea was promptly stolen.

Post# 247069 , Reply# 38 8/22/2013 at 02:42 (3,897 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)
Checkrate/Likes *Stolen hose idea.* That part I do recall reading. And yet, I am sure the Jeyes Ensign commercial upright cleaner has such a feature long before Electrolux allegedly stole Dyson's idea. Furthermore, though not quite the full set up, the principles of an external hose must surely be accredited to Hoover for the Dial-a-Matic (UK convertible). I'm surprised the idea was developed from that sooner.

Post# 247071 , Reply# 39 8/22/2013 at 03:02 (3,897 days old) by RootCyclone (East Midlands,UK.)
Checkrate/Likes Agree with Dysonman1 on this. Read the book carefully. James had hard time developing his vacuum which no one else could. All he had as a shed outside Bristol, and 3-4 other people occasionally helping him with his idea of a bagless cyclonic vacuum. Anyways, enough arguing people, i've had enough.

Post# 247075 , Reply# 40 8/22/2013 at 03:18 (3,897 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)
Checkrate/Likes 1 *Anyways, enough arguing people, i've had enough.* For what it's worth, I thought this thread had remained interesting an mature. However, it's also worth noting that if you're liable to "have enough" of something you started, you might wish to consider starting it. How this now reflects on you is subjective; I only have my own opinion.

Post# 247079 , Reply# 41 8/22/2013 at 03:36 (3,897 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)
Checkrate/Likes 2 *Anyways, enough arguing people, i've had enough* Oh goodie. Someone else that doesn't like anyone have an opinion different to theirs. Newsflash. The sun does not shine out of a Dyson bin.

Post# 247080 , Reply# 42 8/22/2013 at 04:31 (3,897 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)
Checkrate/Likes Mr Dyson simply copied an idea that had been around for like 100years--the cyclone filter for industry is nothing new-heck in behind the Kirby site in Ohio--I see a CYCLONE!!!Just about ANY school woodshop has a cyclone dust trap-filtering device.Uusually Torit is the largest maker of them.I used to empty the one in the school shops I was in.there were two drums or bins to empty-the one right under the cyclone itself-contained the large peies like wood shavings,chips or even small blocks.The cyclone was on the motor-blower air intake-so the large debris didn't reach the fan.On the fan discharge was the fines filter and a bin under it-you moved a lever which shook the filters to dislodge the very fine dust into the bin-like very fine sawdust and sander dust.Anoher cyclone unit-this one in the older school-had the motor fan unit AHEAD of the cyclone-so anything went thru the fan-At that time us michevious boys loved to toss woodblocks into floorsweep openings to hear them go CLANG thru the big fan-and when you emptied the cyclone bin-those wood peices were smashed to bits!Was like a 5Hp motor.Can't remember the brand of that unit-was like made in early 50's when the shop was built into the school built in 1915.I liked messing with hose units-emptying them and such-was a GIANT vacuum cleaner after all,and also the shops hade floor sweep openings near the floor-you swept debris in front of them-pulled a handle-and it was gone! Was interesting how Mr Dyson essentiually miniturized the industrial cyclone to fit in a vacuum cleaner-Another company-"Dust Deputy" think it is-makes cyclones to use with regular shop vacuums and floor sander machines.A long hose goes from the truck mounted motor cyclone unit to the floor sander in the home or building-replaces the large sander bag.The dust deputy units have like a 5 gal standard plastic bucket to catch the debris for the Shop vac unit.It uses the shop vacs airflow to power it.The floor sander machines have their own motor or engine for power and a large bin. I own two Dysons and find just about ANY of my other vacuums do better-from Riccar to Kirby.DC05,DC15.

Post# 247086 , Reply# 43 8/22/2013 at 05:11 (3,897 days old) by hi-loswitch98 ()
Checkrate/Likes 1 Turbo500, especially when they are filthy & scratched!

Post# 247088 , Reply# 44 8/22/2013 at 05:46 (3,897 days old) by RootCyclone (East Midlands,UK.)
Checkrate/Likes 1 I just don't take well to criticism and stuff. I can't help it! :( I've just been attached to Dyson ever since I was little. Again, I struggle with life.

Post# 247089 , Reply# 45 8/22/2013 at 06:02 (3,897 days old) by hi-loswitch98 ()
Checkrate/Likes Yes well every brand has it's disadvantages...

Post# 247091 , Reply# 46 8/22/2013 at 06:16 (3,897 days old) by RootCyclone (East Midlands,UK.)
Checkrate/Likes Very true. I suppose every vacuum brand isn't perfect. Hoover, Dyson, Kirby etc.

Post# 247094 , Reply# 47 8/22/2013 at 06:46 (3,897 days old) by hi-loswitch98 ()
Checkrate/Likes Nope.

Post# 247095 , Reply# 48 8/22/2013 at 06:54 (3,897 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)
Checkrate/Likes *A little history about an actual cyclone BEFORE DYSON!* Taken from previous post I added, when scanned from the book, ""The Vacuum Cleaner, A History" by Carroll Gantz."

Post# 247098 , Reply# 49 8/22/2013 at 07:20 (3,897 days old) by thekirbylover (Warrington, cheshire )
Checkrate/Likes *The sun does not shine out of a Dyson bin.* thats because it shines out of the electrolux internal hose

Post# 247100 , Reply# 50 8/22/2013 at 07:58 (3,897 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)
Checkrate/Likes *thats because it shines out of the electrolux internal hose* Michael, I wouldn't even say that. I have yet to find an absolutely perfect vacuum - even my beloved Sebo and Lux 500/Twin Turbo's have their flaws. It's all a matter of balancing out the pro's and con's. For example: Dyson pro's: No bags to buy Full stair stretch hose Brushroll on/off controls Good suction Dyson cons: Messy to empty Filters have to be maintained Poor construction Expensive to buy impractical tool setup poor brushroll near impossible to clean under low furniture Sebo pro's: Not overly expensive if you shop around Easy to maintain Easy to take apart (brushroll, handle, tools and replacement parts easilly available Quick use tools high filtration level large capacity bags mean emptying less often reliable and well made vacuums flat to the floor for cleaning under low furniture Brushroll is fantastic for grooming/deep cleaning of the carpet pile Sebo con's: X series lack brush controls cleaner prone to falling over when using the hose on stairs X seies can sometimes be awkward to manuever Felix exhaust filter not all that easy to replace. Overall for me, Dyson has 4 pro's vs 7 cons whereas the Sebo has 8 pro's vs 4 con's. All about the balance :)

Post# 247102 , Reply# 51 8/22/2013 at 08:13 (3,897 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)
Checkrate/Likes Don't forget SEBOS X series ridiculous "on-board computer" for Automatic height adjustment, which in my opinion is a gimmick and works inefficiently. This post was last edited 08/22/2013 at 13:46

Post# 247103 , Reply# 52 8/22/2013 at 08:15 (3,897 days old) by hi-loswitch98 ()
Checkrate/Likes TBH Alex is right, the Computer Height Adjustment can't make up it's mind as it keeps going up & down.

Post# 247105 , Reply# 53 8/22/2013 at 08:27 (3,897 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)
Checkrate/Likes Well, I just find it a bit temperamental, when I first turn it on it can't make it's mind up wheather it wants to stay up or down, however after using it for a while the flickering of the lights terminate and it stays at a constant height. If I use it on hard floors for any more than 5 minutes the check brush light comes on...Also to get the bag full indicator light to illuminate, you have to cover the hose for at least 3 seconds, on my Turbopower 2, you just have to cover the hose for a millisecond and the light illuminates, which is how sensitive it should be!

Post# 247106 , Reply# 54 8/22/2013 at 09:11 (3,897 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)
Checkrate/Likes 2 I've never found the issue with the Sebo's computer controlled height adjustment. My Sebo maintains contact with the floor no problem, even on an uneven surface. Therefore, I did not include that in my cons list. It's not a feature I particularly find essential or important, but it works well. I could quite happily live with a manual or spring loaded height adjustment. Also, bag full indicators are ridiculous full stop. They'll have been some clever clogs back in 1993 using a Turbopower 2 for the first time on the stairs and going "OH MY GOD, the bag full light is flashing, better empty it!" even though it's no where near full. I've never paid any attention to a bag full indicator on ANY vacuum, let alone the Sebo. However, the Sebo is not up for discussion, I was merely trying to show the balance between pro's and con's - it could have easilly been a comparison between a Dyson and a Kirby or an Electrolux and a Hoover, but I think the latter would upset Alex too much :P

Post# 247127 , Reply# 55 8/22/2013 at 12:29 (3,897 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)
Checkrate/Likes *Typical...* Taking the conversation away from SEBO as soon as I point out a flaw...

Post# 247130 , Reply# 56 8/22/2013 at 12:49 (3,897 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)
Checkrate/Likes *Oh well, lets return to SEBO if you wish..* No I haven't either - but then when or IF you're used to a heavy conventional Hoover upright that is a chore to push compared to just a finger on the handle of the SEBO and you're too impatient to wait for the sensor to adjust, then go right ahead and form your opinion. The sensor adjusts "as you go" anyway.. But then.. I USED to be of the same mind when I adored my Turbopower 2 and 3 series. I never knew that any other upright could exist that could better it. I was shocked and very taken with how super easy my parents inherited X1 Automatic was when comparing it to my old Hoover collection. I was even more shocked to find that the brush roll shut off if there's a clog unlike drive belt breakages. The hose release is also simple compared to the usual "stuck down with dirt" cuff on the lower to release hose on the backs of the TP2 & 3 series, which might not have happened if I didn't use those machines as much and just left them in a corner as part of a collection. At least the SEBO doesn't suffer from naff height adjustment slider controls that can come off in your hand (cue Turbopower 2,3 & Purepower) - Even SEBO's manual model has a proper dial on the side if you're lucky enough to get a G2 model. The Hoover's adjuster sliders had to be treated with care when requiring to clean hard floors and half the time they didn't pick up properly as the brush roll was lifted far away from it. Importantly though, end of the day, the SEBO has a far better sealed suction design than Hoover in general. It took me several years to get over how SEBO managed to design an upright that was better than the Hoover TP2/3 series and quite a long time to get over the fact that Hoover as a brand, didn't always produce the best that they could. The SEBO isn't perfect, as Chris does say but it is a far easier model to use in general IMHO. This post was last edited 08/22/2013 at 13:05

Post# 247138 , Reply# 57 8/22/2013 at 13:21 (3,897 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)
Checkrate/Likes I am sure you love the Turbopower 2/3 as much as I do, Ryan, because everytime I suggest something I don't like about a SEBO you bring up the Turbopower 2/3...All I said a few posts back was the bag full light was more accurate, I didn't compare them, like you are doing, AGAIN. I don't actually think "nothing else could better it" because I know that is not true, Turbopower 1, Hoover Junior, Kirby. They are just a very nice design and one of my faveourites. I can't change my mind really, that is like trying to squeeze Coke out of a cow! I do like the SEBO and I think it is an excellent machine but I would never turn my back on a Turbopower 2 for one, the SEBO does not have the same value to me, I don't like Turbopower 2's from memory of anyone having one when I was little, because they didn't, I just love the styling, ease of use and sound of them and most of all a flaming height control that I CAN SET!

Post# 247148 , Reply# 58 8/22/2013 at 13:37 (3,897 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)
Checkrate/Likes Well, you did make the comments regarding how gimmicky you think the SEBO computer panel is. Then the "gimmick" turned to "temperamental." You then commented on how useless the SEBO is on hard floors and THEN went on about the bag light indicator. You can't back out of what you said. I've taken on what you've said and I'm just offering you an opinion - i.e. MINE. I bring up the TP2s and 3s because that formed part of my collection and I adored them. Sorry if you think I'm getting on at you all the time - perhaps I should bring into memory, my LG upright vacuum cleaner - that was a great upright too, super light, easy to push and far easier to use than the Hoover. Pity LG don't make them anymore. They were a good all rounder and I have never seen an upright since where only ONE screw and a slide lock is required to get in to take off the sole plate to change the belt.

Post# 247153 , Reply# 59 8/22/2013 at 13:48 (3,897 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)
Checkrate/Likes "I bring up the TP2s and 3s because that formed part of my collection and I adored them." Funny way of showing it...The way you talk about them makes me doubt, you make it sound like they were a burden to the drawering board!

Post# 247156 , Reply# 60 8/22/2013 at 14:29 (3,897 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)
Checkrate/Likes Thats because Alex, I have moved on from Hoover. There's more to life than just sticking to one model from a brand all the time. Sadly though, all you seem to post is stuff about Hoover and those certain models. JM was the same with his Hoover Ranger....

Post# 247163 , Reply# 61 8/22/2013 at 15:03 (3,897 days old) by hi-loswitch98 ()
Checkrate/Likes Depends how much brand loyalty you have, Hoover is my fave but I do try ones from Vax & Electrolux, etc.

Post# 247167 , Reply# 62 8/22/2013 at 15:37 (3,897 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)
Checkrate/Likes *I just don't take well to criticism and stuff. I can'* Yes you can, you can make the choice not to start a debate, be it in person or in writing. No where have you personally been criticised, so you've nothing to worry about there. This is all part the rich tapestry of life and part of the growing up process. You will learn as you grow older.

Post# 247213 , Reply# 63 8/22/2013 at 18:28 (3,896 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)
Checkrate/Likes I appolgise by taking pride in the herritage of that 6 letter word and over a century of great products... I am a Hoover collector, Ryan, but I do have other brands that I am loyal too, like Electrolux's, Kirys and Numatics, but Hoovers just make me moist and I am sure most would agree. Alex.

Post# 247218 , Reply# 64 8/22/2013 at 19:30 (3,896 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)
Checkrate/Likes 1 Eww make you moist?? I don't want to know!

Post# 247234 , Reply# 65 8/22/2013 at 20:36 (3,896 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)
Checkrate/Likes 1 Oh Ryan, you could drown in moisture from SEBO's!!

Post# 247289 , Reply# 66 8/23/2013 at 05:28 (3,896 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK)
Checkrate/Likes *Have you not seen the picture?*

Post# 247291 , Reply# 67 8/23/2013 at 05:49 (3,896 days old) by madabouthoovers ()
*This post has been removed by the member who posted it.* This post was last edited 08/23/2013 at 07:37

Post# 247295 , Reply# 68 8/23/2013 at 06:35 (3,896 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)
Checkrate/Likes 1 *Taking the conversation away from SEBO* Yes, but not because you pointed out a flaw. I attempted to move the converstion AWAY from Sebo because this conversation had absolutely nothing to do with them. The only reason I brought them up was to use as an example when comparing 2 brands. I could have easilly used any 2 other cleaners. It was YOU who turned this into a Sebo vs. insert other brand thread AGAIN with Reply#51. You don't like em. WE GET IT. There is no need to bring it up at every available opportunity. @madabouthoovers... "Sebo_fan hates JMurray" I don't really thing Ryan gives that much of a flying fig about Jamie, to be honest, so I don't think "hate" is quite the right word. I'm sure Jamie has very little impact on Ryan's life, if at all. "why all the animosity towards a junior member just because he worships Dyson?" That is precisely what I was getting at in reply#50. Anyone who talks to me regularly will know I love my Sebo. LOVE IT LOVE IT LOVE IT. But just because I love something doesn't make it perfect, and I am open to (valid) criticsm. No cleaner is perfect, but RootCyclone was getting awfully defensive of any criticsm regarding Dyson. Age is irrelevant. Young or old, the only way anyone is ever going to learn to accept criticsm is if someone points this out. The thing that REALLY grates on my t!ts is when someone assumes that my carpet is less clean than theirs because I do not use a Hoover/Kirby/Dyson/whatever brand. Truth be told, there is no better or worse vacuum than any other. Any vacuum will clean a carpet. It's all about finding what works for you, in your home and what you find does the best job with the least amount of effort. So Alex loves his Hoover Turbo 2, that's great! But that doesn't make anything in my house any less clean because I use a Sebo. I know the Sebo isn't perfect, but I've found it works the best for me. It also doesn't make either the Turbopower 2 OR the Sebo perfect. There are far too many folk around these parts with this attitude, and it bloody stinks.

Post# 247301 , Reply# 69 8/23/2013 at 06:54 (3,896 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK)
Checkrate/Likes Also, further to my above post, I would never recomend a particular brand just because it's my favourite. So many of my friends come up to me and say "what vacuum do I get?" and my response is always "what do you want in a vacuum?". You have to consider other peoples likes and dislikes and what their home is like. I recently recommend a Vax Mach cylinder to someone as they had just moved into a new apartment with solid wood floors. Personally, I'd never own one, but my friend has his criteria. It had to be bagless, it had to be a cylinder and it had to be within a certain price range. I did some digging and suggested the Vax and he's more than happy with it. Time and time again I see people on here recomending something because they think it's the best, but it might not be for that person. "OMG, you need to buy X machine because it's the best", "X model was the best model ever made of brand Z" etc etc. It's all TOSH. (Alex, avert your eyes, this might upset you) I was recently chatting with the lady who works on the counter at my local vac shop and she recalled how she hated the Hoover Turbopower 2 and how customers were returning them and exhanging them for Panasonic's, Electrolux's or even older Hoover's because they were too top-heavy for the user and awkward to use. Even though the Turbopower 2 is a great cleaner, it obviously wasn't favoured by those customers. Another example, my Mum wouldn't use a cylinder if you paid her. My Dad, on the other hand, prefers them. So needless to say, when it came to new vacuum time, I had to put my own preferences aside and consider what would be best for them. It's all well and good having a favourite model or brand, but you have to be subjective sometimes and look at the whole picture. Again, something many of our members of ALL ages could do with trying.

Post# 247305 , Reply# 70 8/23/2013 at 07:54 (3,896 days old) by madabouthoovers ()
*This post has been removed by the member who posted it.*

Post# 247306 , Reply# 71 8/23/2013 at 08:13 (3,896 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)
Checkrate/Likes Chris, well said and thank you. Steve - people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Instead of trying to justify everything from a young person's view, this is a FORUM. It is not a Chat room. Therefore the "opinion" and conversation is recorded. It is different. IF younger members want to display their love for a certain brand, they should go for it. I see no difference in any other member, young or older posting a brand they adore - I've done it myself and the VINTAGE section has many posts about many interesting brands. BUT, when some members start to inject other brands into conversations, it is a natural debate - sorry, but it is - we're not here to pat each other on the back - we're here to spread and share our own experiences. If you don't like it, then leave - every forum is the same regardless of topic. There's always bound to be differing opinions. Goodness me, if we were all to form the same opinion about everything, this forum would cease to exist. May as well turn it into a poll of results instead!

Post# 247308 , Reply# 72 8/23/2013 at 08:27 (3,896 days old) by madabouthoovers ()
*This post has been removed by the member who posted it.* This post was last edited 08/23/2013 at 08:44

Post# 247835 , Reply# 73 8/26/2013 at 18:48 (3,892 days old) by Rolls_rapide (-)
Checkrate/Likes *Hose on uprights* Dyson couldn't patent the onboard hose because it had either been patented and / or done years previously: "prior art". I previously came across Hoover patents on the web, American I think, from around 1935, showing a Model 370 or 375 Hoover Junior-like drawing with attached hose. I don't think it was ever made.

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