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Thread Number: 20904
With Bagless Vacuum Cleaners - do you empty the container after every use or when it gets full? |
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| Post# 234081 , Reply# 1 5/26/2013 at 15:08 (3,986 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA) | ||
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| Post# 234086 , Reply# 3 5/26/2013 at 15:30 (3,986 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA) | ||
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| Post# 234087 , Reply# 4 5/26/2013 at 15:31 (3,986 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
I think it depends on the kind of bagless cyclonic vac you have. Back in the day when I owned Dyson you could get away with going past the Max empty suggestive line but the older types depend on the filter design, particularly if you know in the back of your mind that you will have to attack the filter to be cleaned. It is one reason to why I prefer bagged vacs - there's very little to clean dependent on the brand you have.
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| Post# 234088 , Reply# 5 5/26/2013 at 15:33 (3,986 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA) | ||
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| Post# 234089 , Reply# 6 5/26/2013 at 15:41 (3,986 days old) by ultraperformer (Derbyshire, UK, Europe) | ||
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| Post# 234091 , Reply# 7 5/26/2013 at 16:14 (3,986 days old) by hi-loswitch98 () | ||
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What about either a Hoover Jazz Upright or Hoover Dust Manager Upright? | ||
Post# 234092 , Reply# 8 5/26/2013 at 16:48 (3,986 days old) by tazcatsdad  (Buffalo, NY) |
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I'd say that it's all a matter of ... ... personal preference. When I use my bagless machines -- either one of my two Dysons (DC07 All Floors upright, DC11 Telescope cylinder), one of my two Electrolux Twinclean cylinders, or my Electrolux PowerSystem Z1720 upright -- I prefer to empty the bin thoroughly when I'm done cleaning. And sometimes, I have to dump out the bin midway through the job when I'm doing a heavy clean!
-- Bill W. | ||
| Post# 234099 , Reply# 9 5/26/2013 at 18:52 (3,986 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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Its not just that though - if you have or own a cheap bagless cyclonic with a paper pleated filter you have to know in your mind what you're picking up that will clog easily and thus cut the suction. Doesn't matter if its a Hoover Jazz, Dust Manager or even a Bissell bagless - if it uses the old cyclonic filter cleaning principle after each use, its pointless to call it reliable. Not when you have to clean it out all of the time.
Dependent on the kind of dust you're picking up, some brands and their associated models can get away with different types of dust that doesn't necessarily clog up the filter quickly. Yet again though, if your machine has a bag theres none of that extra bit of work. | ||
| Post# 234131 , Reply# 10 5/27/2013 at 03:59 (3,986 days old) by dysondestijl (east midlands, UK) | ||
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I obviously didn't keep my eye on the bin level in my dyson DC25... 
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| Post# 234144 , Reply# 11 5/27/2013 at 06:33 (3,986 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
Hoover Jazz & Dustmanager
just a heads up that the Hoover Jazz and Dust Manager use 2 different bagless systems. The DM uses a crappy low efficiency, direct filter cyclone in a dustbox that leaks. The Jazz uses a high efficiency, multiple dust seperation cyclone similar to (but not the same as) a Dyson or a Vax Mach. The Slalom, Freedom, Jazz and Turbo Power all use a high efficiency cyclone. The rest of Hoovers range uses the crappy filters. The cyclone isn't as efficient as a Dyson, but it's still 100% better than any of the cheaper cyclones. If anything, the Hoover Airvolution cyclone and the Vax Mach cyclones are more similar to the original Dyson Dual cyclone than anything else.
Back on topic, I don't own a bagless vacuum. I have had several Dysons over the years and always kept them for a few months and then sold them on. I've always preferred bags as I'm highly allergic to dust and therefore emptying a bagless vacuum usually sets off a sneezing, wheezing, itchy eye fit. The last Dyson I owned was a DC04 Absolute - I actually quite like the DC04's and if I was to own a Dyson for daily use, it would be one of these. I just emptied it when it was full - I didn't see any point in emptying it every time. 
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| Post# 234146 , Reply# 12 5/27/2013 at 06:34 (3,986 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland) | ||
Indeed the only way a bagless is effective in picking up dirt is when the bin is emptied after each use, which is why a bagged is much more convenient.
It is actually a huge step BACKWARDS for vacuum cleaners, as they used to have to be emptied after each use when the "shake-out" bags were still in use in the 20s, 30s, 40s and 50s then paper bags were fitted and made things a lot easier. Bagless has just brought us back to those days of unhygienic messy empting all the time. | ||
| Post# 234147 , Reply# 13 5/27/2013 at 06:40 (3,986 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland) | ||
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I should probably add that my previous statement was in relation to cheaper (more common) bagless machines such as the Dust Manager and similar.
More advanced cyclones can be left for a while before emptying but are still much higher maintenance than bagged. Of course in some applications a bagless machine is better and I do actually own one (though it never comes within 6 feet of another cleaner and has more dust on the outside than in the bin) so I'm not totally biasted towards bagged, I just prefer them. | ||
| Post# 234148 , Reply# 14 5/27/2013 at 06:41 (3,986 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland) | ||
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| Post# 234150 , Reply# 15 5/27/2013 at 06:45 (3,986 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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Indeed the only way a bagless is effective is when the bin i
Sorry Jamie, but I disagree entirely. If you use a bagless cleaner with a high efficiency, multi-cyclonic system, you shouldn't need to empty the cleaner after each use and you should only need to wash the filters every few months. 3-6 months, depending on use and what you've been cleaning up.
It's these type of cyclones that need emptying and cleaning after each use with the pleated HEPA filters actually in the dust bin and no dust seperation system. The Dyson cyclone works by seperating dust particles, with larger particles being spun out of the air first in the bottom of the cyclone, the air passing through the different cyclones as it does, the particles get smaller and smaller, so only very very fine dust ever reaches the filer. Whereas on these, all the dust and dirt is coming into direct contact with the filters, meaning they require more maintenance. 
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| Post# 234152 , Reply# 16 5/27/2013 at 06:47 (3,986 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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Bagless has just brought us back to those days of unhygienic
well, not entirely. These is a significant difference between tipping a plastic bin full of dust into the trash or shaking out a cloth bag. The cloth bag is porous and so will retain dust particles, despite how many times you shake it (oooo-errrr Mrs!). Plastic isn't, so the dust will just slide out with minimum retention.
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| Post# 234153 , Reply# 17 5/27/2013 at 06:49 (3,986 days old) by hi-loswitch98 () | ||
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With the Dust Manager Upright though the dirt enters just below the filter so it shouldn't need emptying after each use or am I wrong. | ||
| Post# 234155 , Reply# 18 5/27/2013 at 06:54 (3,986 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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the dirt enters just below the filter
That doesn't really make any difference, to be honest. The suction is still coming through the filter above, so more dirt and dust is coming into contact with the filters than on the Jazz or other multi-cyclonic cleaner. The DM is also one of the most notorious cleaners for leaking dust into the bag chamber (or box chamber) and motor. It's amazing how many dust managers you see covered in dust and burnt out at the tip. They've been on sale for far too long now, it's about time Hoover scrapped them in favour of the Jazz, Turbo Power and Globe
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| Post# 234157 , Reply# 19 5/27/2013 at 06:54 (3,986 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland) | ||
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"Sorry Jamie, but I disagree entirely. If you use a bagless cleaner with a high efficiency, multi-cyclonic system, you shouldn't need to empty the cleaner after each use and you should only need to wash the filters every few months. 3-6 months, depending on use and what you've been cleaning up." Yes I agree totally, as per my follow up to the first reply.
"well, not entirely. These is a significant difference between tipping a plastic bin full of dust into the trash or shaking out a cloth bag. The cloth bag is porous and so will retain dust particles, despite how many times you shake it (oooo-errrr Mrs!). Plastic isn't, so the dust will just slide out with minimum retention." Ah yes, but shaking out a cloth bag is so much more entertaining and think about the calories burnt. Excercise bike? No thank you, I've got my shake out bag. | ||
| Post# 234159 , Reply# 20 5/27/2013 at 06:57 (3,986 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland) | ||
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"The DM is also one of the most notorious cleaners for leaking dust into the bag chamber (or box chamber) and motor. It's amazing how many dust managers you see covered in dust and burnt out at the tip." I concur Chris, our DM lasted 6 months before tripping the thermal cut out every 10 minutes and eventually going up in smoke (quite literally).
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| Post# 234165 , Reply# 21 5/27/2013 at 07:02 (3,986 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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| Post# 234168 , Reply# 22 5/27/2013 at 07:10 (3,986 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland) | ||
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| Post# 234178 , Reply# 23 5/27/2013 at 09:00 (3,985 days old) by dysonman1 (the county) | ||
I was recently involved with this type of discussion with a friend who owns a very large Black Lab and a very large Border Collie. He has a Dirt Devil bagless featherlite (with that horrible pleated filter in the middle). I gave him a Simplicity Symmetry to try out. He's a fireman, so only vacuums once a week. The bin in the bagless would fill two or three times in one trip around the house, he banged out the filter at the end during the final emptying.
The Simplicity cleaned fine. Since Kevin couldn't see the dirt, he kept on vacuuming until the dirt backed up in the hose. There's so much dog hair, dog food, mud from their paws, etc. Two big dogs make one large mess of a house. The problem with the bags is the Kevin would never buy them. Not because he was opposed to spending the money, but because they didn't carry them at wal-mart. He hated the Simplicity because it USED bags. While most vacuum collectors go on and on about how much they hate bagless - bagless wasn't designed for us. It was designed for someone like my friend Kevin. I realized that for him, bagless was a godsend, even the dreaded pleated filter was better than a bag - because he didn't have to buy them. Wound up giving him a simple Hoover WindtunnelMAX Multi-Cyclonic and he couldn't he happier with it. After two months, and about 20 full bins of dirt, the pre-motor filter still passed just as much air as when the machine was new. Just a slight coating of fine dust. There are so many people for whom bags are NOT the answer. We must realize that most vacuum consumers are not like us - the 'sanitary' aspect of the disposable bag (invented by Air-Way in 1920) is no longer a viable option for many folks - people with large families or pets. We have to understand that to MOST people, disposable bags are a total waste of money - you're throwing the cost of the bag into the trash can. No matter how WE feel about bags/bagless - it's the ultimate consumer who drives vacuum manufacturers to make the types of cleaners they do. Most people consider bagless to be a step ABOVE bags - by eliminating the need to remember to purchase something AND by being able to see how much dirt is collected and when it's time to empty. | ||
| Post# 234192 , Reply# 24 5/27/2013 at 12:03 (3,985 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA) | ||
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| Post# 234193 , Reply# 25 5/27/2013 at 12:06 (3,985 days old) by suckolux (Yuba City, CA) | ||
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Another point, which I had not considered until Mom broke her Hoover Elite. I loaned her the dc18 for her senior apt, cream plush carpet. How do you like it mom? Well the hose is handy, but its kinda heavy and how am I supposed to dump this son of a ----- out up here in my apt? Hmm, no big can right outside her door. I went shopping for lightweight, plastic vac that day.
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| Post# 234205 , Reply# 26 5/27/2013 at 13:09 (3,985 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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Actually Hoover have improved the filter bin on the Dustmanager range, replacing the angular cartridge with a round paper HEPA type and offering plastic mesh inside.
The shake out bag was more of a mess than the cyclonic paper pleated types still on sale today and who was the brand that went for the shake out process? Hoover! From the leaking Permabag system to the poor leaking standard of previous Dustmanagers, one would have hoped Hoover would have learnt from experience and stuck with the disposable paper bag. 
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| Post# 234208 , Reply# 27 5/27/2013 at 13:51 (3,985 days old) by paulc (Edinburgh) | ||
Every bagless cleaner I have had I have always emptied after every use, for one I don't like the dirt sitting in the cleaners container over night, plus I like to see how much dirt I have picked up when I vacuum.
My current cleaner's instruction book (Morphy Richards Lift Away Clarity, sold as Shark Navigator Lift Away in the USA) recommends emptying after each use, possibly as the bin is not that big. I don't find it inconvenient. I also wash the foam filter once a week as it does get dirty quickly. I did leave it for a few weeks and noticed a slight reduction in power, however the felt filter underneath and the HEPA filters are still squeaky clean. The big thick foam filter seems very effective. | ||
| Post# 234214 , Reply# 28 5/27/2013 at 14:35 (3,985 days old) by dysonman1 (the county) | ||
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I always wondered how Shark got away with a 'no loss of suction' claim on a single-cyclone upright - but I will say I've seen my share of Shark Lift Away's and even with very dirty foam filters, they still have decent suction. The new Shark Rotator is a very big selling machine in the USA right now, people who do not have the funds to buy a Dyson (and many who do) instead buy the Shark. And most people are pleased with it - UNTIL they have a problem. The Shark warranty requires the entire machine be sent to New York (customer pays shipping) along with $40 for the return shipping. Can't purchase any parts for the power brush, you must replace it entirely. Most parts are on 'back order', if you can find an English speaking person in their Customer Service department to take your order. I consider the Shark to be an 'orphan' as most people will not be able to obtain professional repair service on it locally.
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| Post# 234216 , Reply# 29 5/27/2013 at 14:53 (3,985 days old) by paulc (Edinburgh) | ||
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dysonman1
In the UK every part of the Lift Away is available to buy online on Morphy Richards website. I do agree it's a bit off you can't buy replacement belts or brush roll but the replacement floorhead retails for roughly £33 which isn't too bad. I will say I would never have paid what MRP is (£199.99), in know way is this cleaner worth that money. I got it for £99 on amazon. I was really quite horrified the first time I used it how much my Nimble had left behind, especially as I vacuum the whole flat everyday.
On thing I did notice with the Nimble was when we got our cat the foam filter after the cyclone got clogged with cat hair so the cyclone was not really doing it's job in that respect and that was with it being thoroughly cleaned each month. I was sceptical about The Morphy Richards single cyclone but I have never seen cat hair on the foam filter once, Plus it's an absolute breeze to maintain. | ||
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Post# 234234 , Reply# 30 5/27/2013 at 16:37 (3,985 days old) by jfalberti (Visalia, CA) |
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The Shark Rotator infomercial | ||
| Post# 234242 , Reply# 31 5/27/2013 at 17:50 (3,985 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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Because Shark is part of a conglomerate perhaps? Given that Euro-Pro, Morphy Richards and Shark seem to pass each other their various brands and models, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to find that Euro-Pro the home company run other brands - and it seems they also own Ninja for their food processors.
When companies like TTI have money flying about, free shipping to and fro plus a lengthy guarantee is an instant bonus to buyers. Once the products have been replaced by other models, the cost prices will eventually become higher. | ||
| Post# 234488 , Reply# 34 5/29/2013 at 17:23 (3,983 days old) by kirbylux77 (London, Ontario, Canada) | ||
Joe: How can they get away with it??
By excluding almost EVERYTHING that breaks down from being covered in the warranty!! Certain manufacturers, such as Sebo, have the idea that certain items (that shouldn't be) should be considered wear items....Sebo as the example, they exclude the electric hose on their canisters from being covered under warranty if it breaks. So, when a major part of the vacuum breaks, the consumer is left holding the bag for the cost of repairs, & the manufacturer laughs all the way to the bank. And worst part is, most consumers wouldn't realize this until AFTER most store's 30 day return policies expires....so they can't just return it for a cleaner with a better warranty & are stuck with the cleaner with a lousy warranty. Shark-EuroPro also does this with their Shark Professional & Infinity canisters....the powerhead is considered a wear item, & you have to buy the entire powerhead if a major component in it, such as the neck, motor or wiring, breaks down. Thankfully, the brushroll is available separately though....
Plus, another thing to consider, is that most manufacturers who give a long warranty make sure whatever they cover in the warranty won't break down under normal usage until AFTER the warranty expires, & they specifically exclude cleaners used for commercial/industrial purposes. Even if they did have a lot of problems with the warranty claims, they can afford to do it....reality is, a vacuum that sells for $200-$400 dollars retail costs a manufacturer only about $25 to $50 bucks to make, I would bet. And by doing the repairs in-house with their own technicians, they are saving a boatload of money by not paying repair shop's labor rates. As for the shipping to & from the customer's home, chances are good they probably have a fixed-rate contract with one or two courier companies & they get a discount for the massive amount of business the courier company is getting. Rob | ||
| Post# 234837 , Reply# 35 6/2/2013 at 06:47 (3,980 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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I agree but at the same time...
Well maybe SEBO do that in the U.S - when my new hose on the K3 Premium malfunctioned last year, it was sent back to SEBO and they admitted there was a fault in the lining. They replaced the hose completely free.
As for other brands - Miele as an example = list parts on their UK website to suggest they have the parts in their warehouse with set prices. Yet when I phoned up to request and buy the 2 tube slider storage clip for my "Quick Step" /Alternative stick vac, they admitted that the part had to specifically ordered from Germany and hence added more of a price than the listed price on the website. As soon as I pointed that out and the idea of being ripped off, UK customer services were forced to change to the price listed on site. But I was not happy that the part had to be ordered from Germany - the website doesn't indicate that little snippet of extra info! In hindsight though, a lot of the time with brands hyping up how good their machines and products are, doesn't help buyers who believe in it and then not purposefully, ignore the maintenance. We've all seen how "curb find" vacs etc are listed on here with bags bursting with dirt or a hose that has been clogged and the vacuum cleaner thrown out because of it. Buyers and eventual owners these days are extremely lazy when it comes to actual maintenance. At the same time though, owners are also being pretty abusive with their vacuums - granted if its a problem the moment you take your new vacuum out of the box and it doesn't work. But, over a period of time if owners are treating their vacuums against the "standard domestic use," passed by the brands, it can be hard to find a solution with that brand if they don't honour the problem under the warranty. | ||
| Post# 234871 , Reply# 37 6/2/2013 at 11:49 (3,979 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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When I registered one of my Sebo vacuums purchased from EBAY UK secondhand earlier this year and then registered with SEBO UK they confirmed that the serial number had not yet been registered on their system and confirmed that I was able to get the full 5 years warranty on it. I mean, if you don't ask you don't get - not entirely sure that brands are therefore not honouring products bought off EBAY UK or any other auction site - UNLESS it has been registered before.
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| Post# 234909 , Reply# 39 6/2/2013 at 16:57 (3,979 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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But I don't think that is purely restricted to vacuums though - even electronics aren't covered - I recently bought a second hand stereo from EBAY UK and within 24 hours of purchasing it, got a message from EBAY UK offering a third party extended warranty. Clearly another way of making money but also good for those after a warranty in the first place - though how it would work on a vintage unit that can't be bought anymore for direct replacement would be hard.
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