Thread Number: 20862
Kirby's With Disposable Bags
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Post# 233545   5/22/2013 at 09:58 (3,990 days old) by crock ()        

Were the Legend II and Heritage II's the first Kirby's that used a disposable filter bag? I have been looking for Classic III's and some have bags and some don't. Do the Heritage II's use the same motor and nozzle but just change the emptor and bag compared to the Classic III?

Post# 233549 , Reply# 1   5/22/2013 at 10:23 (3,990 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)        

kirbyclassiciii's profile picture
It actually started with the Tradition 3CB, in July 1979. The Classic III 2CB was the last Kirby to NOT have disposable bags as an option.

From the Tradition through the Legend II, one could still order the shake-out bag system if (s)he wanted to, but it is very rare to come across one of those, especially the Heritage II (Legend) and Legend II. On those models, two different rear axle setups were implemented: the Tradition/Heritage I-style rear axle (#102080) was used if the HII/LGII was ordered with the reusable bag system, whereas most units - those ordered with the Mini Emtor disposable bag system - used the wide rear axle (#102084, with two #103584 spacers), and thus the two rear wheels stick out more, which makes Sani Emtor installation awkward.

As to the motor and the nozzle... not exactly. I tried to put the LGII rug nozzle on my CIII, but it wouldn't jibe with the CIII safety switch.

In conclusion... any CIII that has a disposable bag system is NOT original.

~Ben

(Attached picture by bnsd60m9200)


Post# 233551 , Reply# 2   5/22/2013 at 10:25 (3,990 days old) by jfalberti (Visalia, CA)        
The blue Tradition

jfalberti's profile picture

was the first Kirby to use a disposable bag.  Some older Kirbys have been converted to use disposable, but did not come from the factory that way.  The Heritage is pretty much the same as the Classic III except for the safety switch design and placement.


Post# 233872 , Reply# 3   5/24/2013 at 14:19 (3,988 days old) by crock ()        

My goal was to get a Classic III and convert it to a bagged system by changing the emptor and the bag of a Heritage I. The reason for this is I want a bagged system with all the red trim and attachments of the Classic III. I read in an earlier post that adding the bagged emptor "ruins" the suction of the Classic III. However, if there is essentially no difference between a bagged Classic III and a Heritage II then the Classic III's performance must still be quite acceptable with the bag. Would the bagged Classic III still operate like the bagged Heritage II or were there other changes to improve the performance of the later models that cannot be easily incorporated to the Classic III?



Post# 233874 , Reply# 4   5/24/2013 at 14:36 (3,988 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)        

kirbyclassiciii's profile picture
Are you saying that you want to convert your CIII to use disposable bags from a Heritage I? If that's the case, then you need the following parts:

179981S = Emtor casting
186076S = Emtor tray, red
186182 = Emtor gasket
188087 = Emtor round rubber gasket
190081 = Bag only, zipper type
190181 = Bottom fill tube adapter
190381 = Fill tube
190481 = Top fill tube adapter
190681 = Disposable paper bag
191182 = Tube tie
191676 = Bag guard, red
191776 = Bag top wire
191876 = Bag top cover (Classic III)

~Ben



Post# 233883 , Reply# 5   5/24/2013 at 15:13 (3,988 days old) by crock ()        

Wow! Thanks for the parts list! If the Classic III is converted to bags will it still perform like a Heritage II?



Post# 233884 , Reply# 6   5/24/2013 at 15:18 (3,988 days old) by dysonman1 (the county)        

dysonman1's profile picture
You can easily attach the sani-emptor and bag from a Heritage I onto a Classic III. The bag hanger is different, so you'll have to reuse the Classic III's hanger and vinyl hanger cover. The airflow is exactly the same on both machines. If you want to make a Classic III clean as efficiently as a Heritage I, simply change the brush roller over from the two row (Classic III) to the four row (Heritage I).

Post# 233887 , Reply# 7   5/24/2013 at 15:29 (3,988 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)        

kirbyclassiciii's profile picture
Which is currently available from Kirby under part #152584. Original part # was 152581.

~Ben


Post# 233893 , Reply# 8   5/24/2013 at 16:57 (3,988 days old) by jfalberti (Visalia, CA)        
I would use

jfalberti's profile picture

he outer bag from a Heritage II Legend II since it will match the trim from the Classic III much better than the orange bag from the Heritage I.  Just my .02 cents  :-)  Sorry, I don't know the pare number.


Post# 233894 , Reply# 9   5/24/2013 at 17:21 (3,988 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)        

kirbyclassiciii's profile picture
Joe,

The Legend II bag with the long zipper, by itself, is part #190088.

Other parts you'll need as a result to go with that:
179984S = Sani Emtor casting
186076S = Emtor tray, red
186182 = Emtor tray gasket
188087 = Emtor round rubber exhaust gasket
190088 = Bag only, with long zipper

~Ben


Post# 233926 , Reply# 10   5/25/2013 at 02:20 (3,988 days old) by Blackheart (North Dakota)        
You could also

blackheart's profile picture
Have a zipper installed in a classic III bag to retain it's look. You could also use a tradition emptor with the adaptor plate from a heritage to keep the emptor look but use bags. Here you can see an upgraded tradition emptor you would just switch out the trays to get it to match

Post# 234015 , Reply# 11   5/25/2013 at 19:00 (3,987 days old) by chan55 (Green Bay, WI)        
Generic bag

I had my Classic 3, red converted to paper bags. I thought I was getting a Kirby setup, instead I got a cheap bag installed which used a Eureka F/G bag. it was a mess. The Eureka bags kept bursting, and then I would have to clean out the whole mess.I got rid of my Kirby after that fiasco.

Post# 234024 , Reply# 12   5/25/2013 at 21:40 (3,987 days old) by crock ()        

Doesn't the Tradition use the same emptor as the Classic III?

Post# 234028 , Reply# 13   5/25/2013 at 22:36 (3,987 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)        

kirbyclassiciii's profile picture
Charles (crock),

Yes. Only the part #s are different, but they will interchange.

For the Classic III, the complete Emtor with tray was part #180076S whereas for the Tradition, it was #179978S with tray.

~Ben


Post# 234058 , Reply# 14   5/26/2013 at 10:24 (3,986 days old) by Blackheart (North Dakota)        
Correct me if i'm wrong

blackheart's profile picture
But i think the tradition emptor has a "lip" for the rubber piece for the filltube that the classic III one does not that lip is what i glued the heritage plate to

Post# 234060 , Reply# 15   5/26/2013 at 11:13 (3,986 days old) by crock ()        

If I use a later "G6-Sentria" or the latest "F" type adapter on the top of the hose, does that mean I could use the latest Micron Magic bags that fit the G series?

Post# 250038 , Reply# 16   9/12/2013 at 21:02 (3,877 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)        

kirbyclassiciii's profile picture
Charles,

Yes, but keep in mind you will need the fill tube from a Heritage II.

~Ben


Post# 275132 , Reply# 17   4/7/2014 at 16:24 (3,670 days old) by Elektrolux ()        
Bag change...

I did a bag & fill tube change on my Heritage 1-HD. The Emptor already has a lip (rim) inside w/ slots to allow to screw in the plastic fill tube adapter, screw on each end is all you need. It is oval but certain hoses will fit and even the 1s that were little bigger I used a wrap to fill space and used automotive A/C duct hose wire clamps to tighten up nicely. plastic zip ties work fine as well. I added a sealant grease to help make more air tight. So my Heritage 1HD now uses the most current cloth Hepa filter bag fit with newly installed "F" style hanger on top.
I have the redish orange cloth bag of a known disposable paper bag system but I had the same question of the guy above. If using a bag sold with a shaker bag system is the outer cloth bag a thicker or different built to accommodate a non inner filer bag. For example, I have a set up similar ready to use for a "F" style cloth Hepa bag conversion on an old '65 D50 but wondering if the same performance question will be an issue. I have aftermarket cloth bags Hepa bags for this and they open up slightly bigger then actual Kirby versions so will it be an issue inside a D50 shaker bag.
If it works, I had plans to use a 2nd D50 shaker bag with inner pocket removed to utilize small zipper opening to get to Hepa cloth bag inside. This has a larger round inner lip without an area to use screws so I will have to built 2 underside retaining clips with screws built to custom made fill tube adapter plate using a silicone gasket sealent to form the air tight seal. Opinions anyone?

Kristopher


Post# 275137 , Reply# 18   4/7/2014 at 17:06 (3,670 days old) by Elektrolux ()        
Micron Magic Cloth bag Conversions...

This was the 1st I did and the most easiest using all Kirby parts. It's a Heritage 1-HD with pulled plastic Mini EmpTor of a Legend II with 1-HD bag & Micron magic Bags inside w/ a G3 - G10 twist Lock fill tube top end but you can get universal cloth Hepa bags for this. I used the the newer fill tube of a Sentria II which takes the bending much better when used in this portable mode a lot. The older early G series tend to crack sooner.
I later used EnviroCare "F" style cloth Hepa bags & performed great even compared side by side w/ Kirby brand version in my like Sentria.


Post# 275147 , Reply# 19   4/7/2014 at 18:17 (3,670 days old) by Elektrolux ()        
Bag Conversion, Measurements...

I found this 2nd method to be just as easy to get a disposable filter bag inside a Heritage 1-HD and back to my 516 and maybe others as well. Again< I can't claim performance yet as I haven't ran test but they do fit.
This pic shows the same Heritage 1-HD Sani EmpTor pull ready to install on a D50. Easiest way without performance drop is to use smaller Sani EmpTor on older models as is including newer style zipper outer cloth bag but with bag hanger to match your model as said above.

However, The outer cloth bags will transfer to this emptor as they seam to share the same bag lip diameter of 16", just old style was round & later models were oval. Note the fill tube adapter and the 2 screws used to attach. It has a soft foam rubber seal gasket under the lip as well. If you want the classic look I would strip, buff & polish (promoting our trusty Handi Butler) the Mini Emptor casing. It is aluminium. I keep 1 just to share between old models with a Legend II zipper bag. But looking for a performance repro classic looking bag for later.

Now, for the upgrade. here's the measurements I took as close as I could to get things done.

Sentria II G11
"F" Style bag fill tube top
fill tube side: 7-1/5" round, filter inner bag end: 7-7/8"

Heritage 1-HD
Sini EmpTor;
fill tube side: 8-1/8" round (oval)
outer cloth bag rim: 16"

Fill tube top end:
fill tube side: 8-1/8" inner bag end: 8-7/8" (oval)

Sanitronic:
Sani EmpTor:
cloth bag outer rim: 16"

Good luck and hit me up with any questions & I'll help where I can.

Kristopher


Post# 341152 , Reply# 20   1/11/2016 at 19:14 (3,026 days old) by Natureclone (Rocky River)        
1HD top fill bag adapter upgrade

Is one of the top fill bag adapters better suited for upgrading the 1HD tube? It appears many of the adapters have smaller diameter than the original 1HD bag adapter.

I apologize if this was clarified in an earlier post as I have been reading older posts for weeks.

I have an Omega that I added brush roll, sani-emtor, outer bag and filltube Assembly to from a Heritage 1. I would like to use the best performing modern disposable inner bags just haven't pulled the trigger on the bag adapter as I wouldn't want to restrict the big fill tube diameter

What is best inner bag style for this upgrade (I have allergies)







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