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Thread Number: 19972
Two Generations Of Permabag Sysem Technology |
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| Post# 223708 3/15/2013 at 14:15 (4,058 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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| Post# 223709 , Reply# 1 3/15/2013 at 14:21 (4,058 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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Anyway... | ||
| Post# 223711 , Reply# 2 3/15/2013 at 14:24 (4,058 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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| Post# 223712 , Reply# 3 3/15/2013 at 14:28 (4,058 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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| Post# 223713 , Reply# 4 3/15/2013 at 14:35 (4,058 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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I know Dyson were the first ones that came out with the clear bin, but maybe they did get there idea from somewhere... the Permabag System has a box that you can see through and the original permabag system on the Freedom was out in 1991 which was two years prior to the DC01 with clear bin, all be it the Permabag System box is not Crystal clear like a Dyson bin but you can certainly see through it, as you can see the cloth I put inside the box.
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| Post# 223714 , Reply# 5 3/15/2013 at 14:37 (4,058 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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| Post# 223715 , Reply# 6 3/15/2013 at 14:51 (4,058 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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OK Moving onto the Permabag System 2 which was a HUGE improvement to the original, the reason being is because the whole box that collects the dirt is made of this stuff called Permalon which is a porous plastic fabric. The Permabag System 2 was designed to trap the dirt while maintaining airflow, it does appear to work as intended as I have tested it with all sorts of things that will clog it I.E salt and flour and it doesn't seam too loose suction as dramatically as the original Permabag System. The Permabag System 2 seams to work just as well as a bag, which is excellent and it doesn't leak like the original Permabag System, so over all it was a great improvement and like the original you just unclipped it and tipped it straight into the bin. The other thing that Hoover boasted about the Permabag System 2 was that it was fully washable and it certainly is, I guss it has to be as the hole thing is basically a filter and there is no means of cleaning it other than washing it out, I am not sure how often it was supposed to be washed, maybe after every full box that was emptied? Anyway if I haven't already said, here is the inside of the Permabag System 2 box. 
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| Post# 223718 , Reply# 7 3/15/2013 at 14:59 (4,058 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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If anyone knows what these two long stick things that are attached to the lid that insert all the way into the box are, can you please tell me. The only thing I could think they are for is to help put out the dirt when you go to empty it as they are not fully tubular, they have a chunk cut off them, which if they were for what I just said then the dirt would get caught on them and pull it out of the box as the edges are quite jagged. The other thing I could think of them being for is to rub the inside of the box to loosen the dirt after you had tipped out the contents. Other than that I have no idea. 
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| Post# 223719 , Reply# 8 3/15/2013 at 15:01 (4,058 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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| Post# 223720 , Reply# 9 3/15/2013 at 15:10 (4,058 days old) by sensotronic (Englandshire) | ||
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The two long stick things are called dirt release tongs and were designed to assist with the emptying of the dust box. The early Permbag System 2 did not have these tongs. | ||
| Post# 223721 , Reply# 10 3/15/2013 at 15:33 (4,058 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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| Post# 223724 , Reply# 11 3/15/2013 at 16:21 (4,058 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom) | ||
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Your right, it is the sexiest mk1 tp in my view. I've got an old permabag box in the garage somewhere I think, do they fit any tp or is the chassis different on the permabags? I'll probably have the service book entry for it if you want a scan? | ||
| Post# 223729 , Reply# 12 3/15/2013 at 16:47 (4,058 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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Hi, first of all, what does "MK1" mean? :P No the chassis is the same on the Freedom it is the back body that is defferent. The Permabag will only work on the Freedom because it has a different fill tube which is shorter in lenght and more to an angle so it fits the Permabag correctly unlike the bagged versions, the fill tube on the Freedom is held in by one screw, not two, which ment it also called for a different back body. it also needs a special piece at the bottom for the permabag to hook onto, as on the bagged versions the door is on a hinge. The bagged versions are A LOT better at not clogging as easily and keeping the dust in but the Freedom is classy! Nevertheless, the Turbopower Freedom does perfom like any other Turbopower, as you probably knew. :P yh, I would certainly be interested in the service book if you are willing to put it up, thanks! | ||
| Post# 223783 , Reply# 13 3/16/2013 at 05:02 (4,058 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom) | ||
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Sorry, its car speak! Mk1- tp1, mk2 - tp2 etc. What's the model number and I'll get it up for you | ||
| Post# 223792 , Reply# 14 3/16/2013 at 07:44 (4,058 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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| Post# 223815 , Reply# 15 3/16/2013 at 12:08 (4,058 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom) | ||
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Diagrams Hi Ales (and anyone else who is interested!!) Service manual below. You should be able to download the PDF as well. CLICK HERE TO GO TO beko1987's LINK | ||
| Post# 223816 , Reply# 16 3/16/2013 at 12:09 (4,058 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom) | ||
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Alex, sorry! Can't edit my posts to correct my spelling! | ||
| Post# 223850 , Reply# 17 3/16/2013 at 14:58 (4,057 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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| Post# 223852 , Reply# 18 3/16/2013 at 15:02 (4,057 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom) | ||
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No probs. Yea its sam | ||
| Post# 223926 , Reply# 19 3/16/2013 at 21:45 (4,057 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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Speaking of the Turbopower Freedom | ||
| Post# 223955 , Reply# 20 3/17/2013 at 08:49 (4,057 days old) by beko1987 (Stokenchurch, United Kingdom) | ||
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Good haul! Always nice to get a few years supplies in | ||
| Post# 245230 , Reply# 21 8/11/2013 at 16:29 (3,909 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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Here is a demo of the Permabag System 2 "in use" The Permabag System 2 was MUCH better than the original, from my experience. The Permabag System 2 didn't really drop in suction at all when compared to the original, it seemed to be no more inefficient than a paper bag. Emptying the System 2 is a bit of a messy job (as the video shows near the end) but no where near as messy as the original. With the Permabag System 2 your hands stay more or less, clean, as you don't have to touch the dirt, you just hold the box on the outside and bash it against the bin a couple of times to release the finer dust. I am not sure what Hoover reccomended, but I reccomend that every 2 or 3 times of emtying it, just give it a rinse and it is as good as new.
I wasn't going to make a video of me doing this same test with the Original Permabag System, with the Turbopower Freedom, as it would of just been a nightmare!! It would clog INSTANTLY in the first pass, it would be spraying dust out everywhere and the hole thing would just get FILTHY...So, I will leave that test for the original Permabag System to your imagination. | ||
| Post# 245242 , Reply# 22 8/11/2013 at 17:22 (3,909 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
but maybe they did get there idea from somewhere
Hi Alex,
I think you're right, but I believe it was still James Dyson who gave Hoover the idea. He tried to sell the bagless design to all the major vacuum companies of the time, and got laughed out the door. That's why he set up on his own. I believe it was on the back of hearing about Mr. D's bagless technology and the fact that Hoover caught wind he was setting up on his own, that the Freedom came about. | ||
| Post# 245254 , Reply# 23 8/11/2013 at 18:06 (3,909 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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Chirs... | ||
| Post# 245313 , Reply# 24 8/12/2013 at 03:19 (3,909 days old) by vintagerepairer (England) | ||
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Shame but for who? Certainly not the mass public - they love Dyson and Dyson products! | ||
| Post# 245314 , Reply# 25 8/12/2013 at 03:29 (3,909 days old) by Turbo500 (West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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they love Dyson and Dyson products!
They do now, but if Dyson had never come to be because the design was picked up by Hoover, or indeed any other major brand of the time, who knows what the world of vacuuming would look like now. People wouldn't love the Dyson product because it would have never existed. Would every other house have a Hoover in it instead of a Dyson, as was the case in the 60's and 70's? Who knows.
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| Post# 245335 , Reply# 27 8/12/2013 at 08:15 (3,909 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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But Benny, I am willing to bet James doesn't design his machines anymore, I believe it is entirely his designers. If Hoover had taken up on the Dyson design, their would be nobody to copy and get taken to court over, therefore, they would not be so much out of pocket that they had to sell to Candy, that is the reason I think they had to sell in the end, If Dyson never suied and they continued with the bagless market, they could of pulled themselves out of the free flights fiasco.
Plus, Look at how much better and user friendly the Vortex was, that is proof that Hoover could do it. | ||
| Post# 245340 , Reply# 30 8/12/2013 at 08:42 (3,909 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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| Post# 245343 , Reply# 32 8/12/2013 at 09:06 (3,909 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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| Post# 245344 , Reply# 33 8/12/2013 at 09:11 (3,909 days old) by hi-loswitch98 () | ||
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So the Purepower was a good design until Candy cheapened it, but I think Hoover are getting back in their feet now. Apparently the White Goods are made in Italy again, unless I'm wrong & they were always produced there. | ||
| Post# 245374 , Reply# 34 8/12/2013 at 12:53 (3,909 days old) by vintagerepairer (England) | ||
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Everything I can find on google sites 1995 as the year when Candy gained control. I know they didn't "Candy-fy" everything right away - it took years- but I recall rumours circulating about Candy in 1992 and the acquisition taking place a couple of years or so later. | ||
| Post# 245381 , Reply# 36 8/12/2013 at 13:17 (3,909 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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| Post# 245382 , Reply# 37 8/12/2013 at 13:25 (3,909 days old) by vintagerepairer (England) | ||
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As to when it was finalised, late 1990's sounds about right as it took years, but as you will see here, control was taken in 1995. CLICK HERE TO GO TO vintagerepairer's LINK | ||
| Post# 245391 , Reply# 38 8/12/2013 at 14:29 (3,908 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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I think you are right benny, look at the sticker differences | ||
| Post# 245392 , Reply# 39 8/12/2013 at 14:31 (3,908 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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And here is the Turbopower 3 rating sticker... | ||
| Post# 245393 , Reply# 40 8/12/2013 at 14:34 (3,908 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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When you compare the Turbopower 3 rating sticker... | ||
| Post# 245515 , Reply# 41 8/13/2013 at 13:21 (3,908 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
Sorry but I find this post utterly pointless - chop me down if you wish - there are archives posted in so far as the Permabag design - I mean, if you're going to go down the road of trying to constantly promote the old Turbopower design, I may as well start posting improvements made to SEBO. Alex - please move on - yes, the Turbopower Permabag was an alternative idea - but it only made it for the uprights and not the cylinders, thus it wasn't really that much of a success.
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| Post# 245517 , Reply# 42 8/13/2013 at 13:25 (3,908 days old) by ultraperformer (Derbyshire, UK, Europe) | ||
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| Post# 245572 , Reply# 43 8/13/2013 at 20:09 (3,907 days old) by myles_v (Fredericksburg, VA) | ||
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| Post# 245573 , Reply# 44 8/13/2013 at 21:01 (3,907 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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Ryan... | ||
| Post# 245574 , Reply# 45 8/13/2013 at 21:09 (3,907 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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Alex - please move on | ||
| Post# 245619 , Reply# 46 8/14/2013 at 06:51 (3,907 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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Myles I understand that and thank you for pointing out how many times so far I have voiced an opinion - I could just as easily do the same to you.
I'm just making a POINT because there is an ARCHIVED section on here already. If you can't find it on here, Google it! One only has to look at previous posts on here regarding vacuums and Alex's posts - it usually all centres around Hoover's Turbopower 2, 3s and whatever else comes along in that range. Whilst I don't mind it popping up from time to time, it is endless - Im fed up reading posts about the TP2 and TP3. ALSO, I think youl'll find that I don't go on and on about SEBO. I chose that name at the time as a handle on here after quite a few names that I wanted had already been taken. And, I think you'll find that MY posts are varied, referring to quite a few different brands. | ||
| Post# 245623 , Reply# 47 8/14/2013 at 07:31 (3,907 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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Actually, Ryan, this post was about the Permabag Systems with the Turbopower Freedom and Turbopower 1000, not Turbopower 2/3, the 1000 is a completely different model, you have to remember that......
Also If you are sick of reading about it, then DON'T read it, not difficult, is it? To say that you clicked on a thread concerning Turbopowers and then say you are fed up of reading them seems a bit silly to me, if you didn't want to see it, why click on the thread? This is like when someone clicks on a youtube video they don't like and comment saying “I don't like this video“...Why? If they didn't like it, why bother clicking on it and spending the time to comment, how silly! | ||
| Post# 245626 , Reply# 48 8/14/2013 at 07:54 (3,907 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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Yes Alex, but whereas You Tube is a rather different visual entertainment system, this is a vacuum cleaner collector's forum. As a classic fan of HOOVER, I'm interested in whatever members have to say and I'll thank you not to teach me about clicking on posts I want to view.
Post about the Permabag on the TP3 already posted: www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-... 2009 by Rob. Post about the Permabag on the Turbopower Freedom POSTED BY YOU on 14/01/2013 www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-... This just appears to be a post where you've bought the two systems together. Did you think about doing an Archive search before you posted, let alone even quote Rob's post on here already? | ||
| Post# 245627 , Reply# 49 8/14/2013 at 08:08 (3,907 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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| Post# 245688 , Reply# 50 8/14/2013 at 15:26 (3,906 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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Since this thread is sort of about the Turbopower Freedom... I thought I would show you what it looks like now, I will post it here, in this thread, otherwise Sebo_fan will throw a hissy fit if I make another!! A week or two back I stripped this whole thing apart and threw EVERYTHING, excepet the motor and wiring (obviously) in the bath, I fully cleaned it all and gave it a good polish with the finishing touch of putting in a brand-new filter, which I had in my stash! :) I think you could almost, just almost pass it off as showroom condition, this shall not be turned on for at least 5 years as it took me about two days just to clean and polish it, so after all that hard work, I think it finally paid off. Here she is...
This post was last edited 08/14/2013 at 15:49 | ||
| Post# 245689 , Reply# 51 8/14/2013 at 15:30 (3,906 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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Even without shining a light on the box... | ||
| Post# 245690 , Reply# 52 8/14/2013 at 15:30 (3,906 days old) by Ultimatevacman ( Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK) | ||
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| Post# 245691 , Reply# 53 8/14/2013 at 15:35 (3,906 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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Isn't the metalic finish just beautiful? | ||
| Post# 245692 , Reply# 54 8/14/2013 at 15:36 (3,906 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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Oh that roundle, I could almost faint! | ||
| Post# 245694 , Reply# 55 8/14/2013 at 15:39 (3,906 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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"bag" compartment... | ||
| Post# 245696 , Reply# 56 8/14/2013 at 15:41 (3,906 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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| Post# 245697 , Reply# 57 8/14/2013 at 15:42 (3,906 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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| Post# 245700 , Reply# 58 8/14/2013 at 15:43 (3,906 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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| Post# 245702 , Reply# 59 8/14/2013 at 15:45 (3,906 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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I even polished the brushroll!!! | ||
| Post# 245706 , Reply# 60 8/14/2013 at 16:37 (3,906 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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This is what it looked like inside, originally... | ||
| Post# 245731 , Reply# 62 8/14/2013 at 21:03 (3,906 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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“So Alex, I take it you aren't going to do another flour demo of this machine anytime soon?“
NO! Lol! I guess you saw my video on that, it really is awful, but it's a stunning looking cleaner! Oh, yes, I remember seeing a picture of one of those dirty fan Twin Chamber System things, I thought it looked pretty cool. | ||
| Post# 245765 , Reply# 64 8/15/2013 at 05:57 (3,906 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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Before Turbopower....
Hang on a minute..
Something in my memory has just sprung a light bulb going on - didn't Hoover have a Powerplus upright with a shake out top bag and a bagless dust bin underneath? That model, if memory serves me correctly was in 1984. Not sure if it had a filter though. I remember seeing one in a shop but never got to actually try one. The one I saw had a much darker grey bin than the one shown here in Hoover's stock brochure. There's your idea for the original dust prongs hanging down. (Brochure link taken from ry_ry) 
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| Post# 245813 , Reply# 65 8/15/2013 at 11:19 (3,906 days old) by Sebox4 () | ||
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Very interesting to see how these work. I haven't used either and I know they're far from perfection, but I'm sure with a bit of tweaking and improvement they could be better than those awful pleated cartridge filters found in modern low end bagless machines. Matt | ||
| Post# 245870 , Reply# 67 8/15/2013 at 16:34 (3,905 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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Rodger... I never found it to let dust through the filter to much, really, it is the seal around the fill tube that wasn't really up to the job and as the mesh filter clogged, which I felt is the thing that blocks the airflow, not the "high density paper filter". With a heavy amout of airflow relentlessly blowing into the Permabag, but couldn't escape easilly as the air was restrickted, the System started to be pushed away from the rubber seal on the fill tube and the dusty air started to leak into the Permabag housing and then went around the sides and into the air, so ultimately, quite a bit of dust lined the machine and went back into the room! The bagged versions were a LOT better than the Permabag varitation, but it is a shame that Turbopower Freedom was so bad, because it is quite a sexy looking cleaner if you ask me.
Here is a video I made a while ago using it to pick up flour! as you can see, when I went over the edge of the stair ledge, just violently blew out of the sides of the Bag housing. | ||
| Post# 245875 , Reply# 68 8/15/2013 at 17:40 (3,905 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2) | ||
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| Post# 245881 , Reply# 69 8/15/2013 at 18:18 (3,905 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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Since I polished up the Freedom, I thought I might.... | ||
| Post# 245882 , Reply# 70 8/15/2013 at 18:21 (3,905 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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This is the Brochure from 1994... | ||
| Post# 245883 , Reply# 71 8/15/2013 at 18:23 (3,905 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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Here is my "recreation" | ||
| Post# 245885 , Reply# 72 8/15/2013 at 18:26 (3,905 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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The on-board tools... | ||
| Post# 245886 , Reply# 73 8/15/2013 at 18:27 (3,905 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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I cleaned the bag housing too... | ||
| Post# 245887 , Reply# 74 8/15/2013 at 18:30 (3,905 days old) by AlexHoovers94 (Manchester UK) | ||
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And the bag door... | ||
| Post# 245958 , Reply# 75 8/16/2013 at 10:57 (3,905 days old) by myles_v (Fredericksburg, VA) | ||
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I had a bagless Powr-Flite vacuum that had the same style of dust cup with the cloth bag over it that the Hoover Powerplus had. It was very messy to have to shake out the bag and then empty it as the seals weren't very good so dust was always forced out of the seals around the dust cup while violently shaking the cloth bag. It was a commercial vacuum and the 50' cord was unnecessary and extremely annoying to me (although I do understand that some commercial environments may need a long cord).
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