Thread Number: 19443
Advice, looking for the BEST canister (Unhappy w/Miele)
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Post# 215560   1/24/2013 at 01:54 (4,081 days old) by GeorgeCT (Fairfield, Connecticut)        

georgect's profile picture
This is my story...I HATE my Miele Capricorn (sorry guys but I do) and here's why.

Miele is so not worth the cost they demand.

Case in point Miele Capricorn Vacuum (top of the line)
I payed around $1400.00 (added turbo brush, bigger power nozzle, extra bags & filter).

I'm SO disappointed in Miele (I don't think they know what Americans want or need on their appliances).

Cord too short.
Hose too short.
On board attachments are too tiny.
The upholstery tool doesn't use horse hair (a felt material is used) which came unglued and almost got sucked into the vacuum, had to super glue it back on.
Dusting brush is ridiculously too small,
and the bristles collapse in on themselves and get sucked into the hole.
You can't park the SEB-236 (power nozzle) on the vacuum.
Wheels on the SEB-236 (power nozzle) are too small and sink into my thick carpeting.
No matter what setting you use for carpet height, the SEB-236 is hard to push on thick carpet.
The wheels on the vacuum itself are too little to prop it off thick carpeting.
The beater bar doesn't even pull the power head along, you really have to apply force.
The plastic material used for the hose is too springy and bumps into things when you vacuum like walls, TV etc.
One of the c-clips that hold the wheels on the SEB-236 came off on first use.
Mini turbo brush is air powered, not powered by it's own motor, not very effective and stops very easily.

Sorry but my still working Kenmore Progressive canister has way more features and longer cord/hose and larger attachments.

I'll never buy a Miele anything again.

So...what I've read lurking here is even the Aerus Lux Guardian Platinum Canister has some short comings that are a deal breaker (no handle switch, no on board tools, no telescopic wand...etc).

I'm thinking maybe the Riccar Immaculate Premier might make me happy.
I want a big canister, with big on board tools big dust bag, a long cord AND hose. Great suction for floors and carpeting, uses real horse hair on attachments.
The only thing is that the power nozzle on the Immaculate Premier is not the Chevron type roller brush.

Something like my Kenmore Progressive but BETTER (the new Progressive's are NOT better).

Please people, I need the truth.
Video's on line persuaded me to get the Miele because they didn't show me all the short comings of the Capricorn.

I don't mind spending good money up front for an excellent machine but I don't want to give up TOL features or spend a ton of money on bags and filters.

I'd love to get feed back on what everyone thinks is the ultimate full sized full featured canister vacuum and I thank you in advance.


Post# 215563 , Reply# 1   1/24/2013 at 02:08 (4,081 days old) by parwaz786 ( )        
Best vacuum

Try a Dyson or a Henry! they are both sold in the USA at Go vacuum or Nacecare.
The Henry is durable with strong suction very quiet long hose and cable, lerge bag lasts ages,good filtration with HEPA bags and used everywhere in the UK, he looks nice with his cheeky face and the metal poles are amazing quality. You can also get a rotating brush head for it to.


Post# 215570 , Reply# 2   1/24/2013 at 03:37 (4,081 days old) by Ultimatevacman ( Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK)        

ultimatevacman's profile picture
Yeah, I recommend Henry too. You can buy him here:

CLICK HERE TO GO TO Ultimatevacman's LINK


Post# 215574 , Reply# 3   1/24/2013 at 04:19 (4,081 days old) by electromatik (Taylorsville, North Carolina, U.S.A.)        

Wow George, you gave Miele a blistering indictment! LOL! That's Miele's secret. They sell you a $1,000 machine but then you have to add $500 more in extra components to really get good use out of it. Rather brilliant (for them) if you ask me. While the "best" vacuum is subjective, there are a few good alternatives for you. If you are looking for a machine built well that will stand the test of time there are a few out there but they will all cost you. Are you wanting a canister specifically or does it matter? Do you mind water filtration vacs? Your best bet for quality is door-to-door companies. Most of these offer similar features as Miele and best Miele in a number of cases. Be warned, these are all high cost. My top recommendations for you would be Aerus (bags plus 15 year warranty and known to last decades), Riccar (bags plus good warranty also), Rainbow (requires water and also known to last decades), and Filter Queen (some have reservations about thier power nozzle but known to last decades). All of these have longer hoses, most have longer cords, and most have superior tools without extra purchases. They are all high performing, long lasting machines if cared for with minimal effort. Most also offer uprights just as high quality. If you want cheaper, my advice would be to go for a well known brand like Hoover or some such. They offer decent features and might last for a while if cared for well.

Post# 215580 , Reply# 4   1/24/2013 at 05:21 (4,081 days old) by electromatik (Taylorsville, North Carolina, U.S.A.)        

Oh sorry you answered most of my questions and Ididn't read your entire post first. You disregarded the Aerus Platinum due to some incorrect reasons. The Platinum has on board tools. The Platinum has the power nozzle switch on the handle in addition to the suction relief valve. The Platinum has automatic suction control-it adjusts itself. It doesn't have a telescopic wand but it does have an electric mini nozzle to be used on hose or wands. Other than that, it has all your other desires fulfilled. You likely won't get everything, there will be something missing. If the Aerus Platinum doesn't satisfy you, I'm not sure what will. All of the other machines have shortcomings. For example, Riccar's mini tool is also air driven, it uses the same type of hose as Miele, and its filtration is poorer. In essence, every machine has shortcomings.

Post# 215584 , Reply# 5   1/24/2013 at 07:04 (4,081 days old) by GM1982 ()        
George CT...

If you are not happy with the Miele, then like others have said there are a couple of other options, not many though- and nothing is going to be perfect. I know the Miele has short power cords, hoses- I really do not see them being that short...but I would take a look at the Aerus Platinum Canister that is probably your only alternative with all the options you are looking for. Miele is going to be similar to Riccar, just with longer cord and metal base plate on the power head, the hoses, air driven only turbo mini are same concept as in the Miele's. For the price of the Riccar canister you might as well go Aerus I think its a better value and comes with electric mini and all the accessories, no add ons. Rainbow is cool too, but requires water- I have been looking into them, I still feel Aerus is more convenient and filters better than water.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO GM1982's LINK


Post# 215585 , Reply# 6   1/24/2013 at 07:39 (4,081 days old) by countryguy (Astorville, ON, Canada)        

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GeorgeCT,

I had a Capricorn also and got rid of it for all the reasons that you stated. It maneuvered very well on bare floors but on the carpeting it was horrible.  As you said, the wheels are just too small.  I have a Filter Queen with the bigger wheels and it rolls easily on all surfaces.  The power nozzle is week however.  And it has the bulky hose handle which I detest.  I have a Rainbow now which I like but if you are not up to emptying and cleaning the water basin after every use or if you just want to pull out a vacuum for a quick pick up, you will find it laborious to use.  I've had the Aerus 6500 and 9000 models which I liked except for the bulky handle and wands which they have continued with on the Platinum model.  I would probably get one as I do like the powered mini nozzle, multiple speeds, long cord, flexible hose, easy bag change, etc. 

 

Gary


Post# 215587 , Reply# 7   1/24/2013 at 07:50 (4,081 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

eurekaprince's profile picture
I would recommend the red Panasonic CG902 - it's basically a clone of the original Kenmore Progressive and has a large bag, full-size on-board tools and a nice long 24 foot cord. The hose and wands are standard diameter so you can buy any universal tools and they will fit. It's a recommended vac in recent Consumer Reports testing as it cleans all surfaces very well, is relatively quiet and has good filtration (you can use Kenmore Hepa bags available at any Sears store.)

Some at Vacuumland claim the motor will need to be replaced in a few years. But since it only costs about $250, with the money you saved you can easily replace the motor for $140 every 5 years!

It's a very dependable and practical canister vacuum.


Post# 215589 , Reply# 8   1/24/2013 at 07:53 (4,081 days old) by cue003 (S. FL, USA. )        

George CT,

Maybe the Sebo D4. It has longer hose at 40ft and longer hose at 7 feet. Has 4 casters instead of three (however I don't think they are any larger than the miele casters so machine may sit at the same height on your carpet thereby have same level of difficulty to move around as you are experiencing now).

I was told that the Capricorn hose is about 18inches shorter than the other electric hoses.

Can you provide some info on how much longer you feel you need for the cord, the hoses etc and some info on the environment you are working in? For example, size, floor types (wall to wall carpet, 2 floors) etc.



Post# 215598 , Reply# 9   1/24/2013 at 10:08 (4,081 days old) by electromatik (Taylorsville, North Carolina, U.S.A.)        

If I were you I wouldn't dismiss the Aerus Platinum out of hand. It is loaded with convenient features that make using it idiot proof. Easiest bag change ever, you CANNOT put it in wrong! It works either way. It even shuts off when it's time to change. It's got one of the most powerful motors in the vac industry. It's filtration is among the best-in Germany it's the only vac certified by the allergy experts to improve air quality. I don't know who gave you the impression that people don't like the Aerus Platinum here, cuz it is creating a huge buzz. Some are nitpicking cuz it doesn't have a telescopic wand, but many of us hate them. I like Aerus' system of electric locking wands and tools. They operate all tools and powered nozzles too. I'm not a representative of Aerus nor am I a salesman for them, but I can tell you that's the one I intend to buy. :)

Post# 215599 , Reply# 10   1/24/2013 at 10:14 (4,081 days old) by GM1982 ()        

The Aerus will probably glide the easiest on thick carpets, try an upright if you have lots of carpeting.


Post# 215600 , Reply# 11   1/24/2013 at 10:24 (4,081 days old) by GeorgeCT (Fairfield, Connecticut)        
Responds...

georgect's profile picture
@parwaz786...Dyson and Henry have been eliminated.
Dyson's I just don't like, pretty on paper but performance overall not so great.
If Henry only offers a "turbo" power nozzel, then It's not for me.

@electromatik...I do love canisters (work better/eaiser with tools).
I don't like water filtration, Rainbow out.
Filter Queen...it's bagless, I like canisters with a bag and some other shortcomings with them.
Riccar may be a contender though I wish it had a mini "power nozzel".
I will have to look deeper into the Platinum.
I don't mind paying $1000.00 or more for the best.

@GM1982 & countryguy...Good points taken. I wish the Aerus Platinum Canister had power settings on the handle and not on the body of the canister.
I don't like uprights, awkward on stairs.

@eurekaprince...That cord is acutally shorter on the Panasonic, I need something over 25ft.

@cue003...I've looked into Sebo (D4) and it's OK but would like a power nozzel that has a step hight adjustment (not a dial I have to bend over to access).
I liked the hose material and length of the Kenmore Progressive (6ft).



Post# 215603 , Reply# 12   1/24/2013 at 10:38 (4,081 days old) by Ultimatevacman ( Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK)        

ultimatevacman's profile picture
Well you can get Henry here with a turbo head here:

and it also comes with a 10 year warranty!

- Joe


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Ultimatevacman's LINK


Post# 215604 , Reply# 13   1/24/2013 at 10:48 (4,081 days old) by matty0033 (New Brunswick, Canada)        

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Just a thought,and if you have not consider it, if your willing to pay 1000.00$ or more for a vacuum and your house does not have one already why not think about a central vacuum system.

Post# 215605 , Reply# 14   1/24/2013 at 10:53 (4,081 days old) by cue003 (S. FL, USA. )        

@Ultimatevacman, That link to the go vacuum pet edition of the Henry still on has an air driven turbo brush not a separate motor driven power nozzle. I think the OP wants a motor driven power brush.

Post# 215606 , Reply# 15   1/24/2013 at 10:59 (4,081 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
Joe

kirbyloverdan's profile picture
turbo brushes do not work on American thick carpets . We need electric driven power nozzles .

Post# 215611 , Reply# 16   1/24/2013 at 11:08 (4,081 days old) by Ultimatevacman ( Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK)        

ultimatevacman's profile picture
Oh sorry, well then don't go for Henry.

Post# 215614 , Reply# 17   1/24/2013 at 11:14 (4,081 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
The

kirbyloverdan's profile picture
Henry is a cute vacuum too bad it doesn`t offer an electric PN .

Post# 215615 , Reply# 18   1/24/2013 at 11:32 (4,081 days old) by Ultimatevacman ( Leeds, West Yorkshire, UK)        

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I know the older Henry's from before 1999 had a plug for a PN.
And you can get the Henry Turbo or Henry Hound in the UK with a PN also, but I don't know if you can get them in the US.


Post# 215618 , Reply# 19   1/24/2013 at 12:13 (4,081 days old) by Blackheart (North Dakota)        
Riccar/Simplicity mini power heads

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Actually Tacony does have an electric mini nozzle but unfortunately you need to also buy this mini wand to go with it which looks like it would be very cumbersome

CLICK HERE TO GO TO Blackheart's LINK


Post# 215621 , Reply# 20   1/24/2013 at 12:57 (4,081 days old) by cue003 (S. FL, USA. )        

@blackheart, that mini power nozzle looks pretty much identical to the Wessel-Werk MEB160. Well except for the neck. It would be great to find those necks for various vacuums manufactures so you can buy aftermarket power accessories and have them connect up to your vacuum of choice with the right neck.

Post# 215634 , Reply# 21   1/24/2013 at 15:06 (4,081 days old) by director12 ()        

I don't see how you dislike Miele. I think this post is getting controversial, as people love their Mieles.

Post# 215643 , Reply# 22   1/24/2013 at 15:20 (4,081 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
getting controversial ???

kirbyloverdan's profile picture
Why is that ? Can`t people express their views ? Thats why they make many vacuums we all like what we like .

I don`t like Miele big deal thats my choice it`s not getting controversial it`s George needs a vacuum and thats it .

Seems like some just like to start things where there is nothing .


Post# 215646 , Reply# 23   1/24/2013 at 15:50 (4,081 days old) by luxman107 (USA )        

Look at the lux platinum. You won't be disappointed.

Post# 215647 , Reply# 24   1/24/2013 at 15:55 (4,081 days old) by luxman107 (USA )        

Btw, I agree not everyone like s Miele. I don't care for them either. The tools are terrible in my opinion. Everyone has their likes and dislikes. That doesn't make them wrong.

Post# 215651 , Reply# 25   1/24/2013 at 16:15 (4,081 days old) by joshdonnell ()        
Miele

I see your points ... But i sill love my 'Miele

Post# 215654 , Reply# 26   1/24/2013 at 16:24 (4,081 days old) by stricklybojack (Southern California)        
Numatic electric bursh roll

stricklybojack's profile picture
I knew one existed, Nacecare.com used to have one on their site but i don't see it now. The link is to a UK shop who offers it.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO stricklybojack's LINK


Post# 215655 , Reply# 27   1/24/2013 at 16:25 (4,081 days old) by floor-a-matic (somewhere)        

How about a TriStar?  The new CS canister is the MOST POWERFUL vacuum currently made that you'll ever find; & the ENTIRE canister & PN housing are made of die-cast magnesium.

 

Or U can go for a rebuilt TriStar CXL; they too are super-powerful.  Another advantage of the older TriStar vacuums is U can use universal 11/4" tools.  Even a Wessel Werk HEB160 mini ELECTRIC PN will work on a CXL TriStar.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wessel-Werk-Handheld-Electric-HEB-160-Stair-Tool-/261052523102?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc7f1625e

 

http://www.vacdepot.com/product-info/cisp/1.2.90.448

 

All TriStar vacuums can even survive a nuclear blast.Surprised

 

www.tristarclean.com/tristarcscanister

 


Post# 215658 , Reply# 28   1/24/2013 at 16:44 (4,081 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

Hi GeorgeCT,
I recommend these PN canisters:
www.riccar.com/products/canisters...
www.riccar.com/products/canisters...
www.simplicityvac.com/products/ca...
www.simplicityvac.com/products/ca...
I hope this helps.


Post# 215659 , Reply# 29   1/24/2013 at 16:57 (4,081 days old) by KirbyUltimateG (Troy Ohio 45373 USA)        

Hi GeorgeCT,
I recommend these PN canisters:
www.perfectproducts.us/index.phpQ...
www.aerusvacuums.com/luxclassicca...
www.aerusvacuums.com/luxlegacycan...
www.tristarclean.com/tristarcscan...
I hope this helps.


Post# 215697 , Reply# 30   1/24/2013 at 20:12 (4,081 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

eurekaprince's profile picture
I beg to differ about the storage of tools on the new Aerus Guardian Platinum: you can only store the crevice tool and the combination upholstery nozzle/dusting brush on the wand. I have always found this storage method inconvenient and annoying since the tools get in your way when you are trying to clean under furniture or high up on mouldings. As well, the combination tool needs to be attached with an adapter and I'm not sure where that adapter is stored. Aerus provides no way to store the floor brush or the mini power nozzle on board like the Kenmore canisters do.

For the money you pay for this vac, Aerus should really include a full-size tool carrier that can store everything including extra bags, filters and the instruction manual....

Just my thoughts on this downside to the Aerus Platinum....


Post# 215698 , Reply# 31   1/24/2013 at 20:22 (4,081 days old) by GM1982 ()        
Valid points....

I think the Sebo D4 canister is the only one I am aware of at the moment that you can actually get all the accessories on board, including the floor brush which can attach to the back parking slot. Maybe the Riccar canisters can too, Im not sure though

Post# 215709 , Reply# 32   1/24/2013 at 22:27 (4,081 days old) by ctsooner ()        
George, where in CT?

I just went through all of this and l listened to everyone. It drove me nuts learning, but it forced me to try everything and that made up my mind quickly. I too am in CT and there were some shops I'd never step foot in again.

I like the Miele, except for all the reasons you didn't like it, lol. I didn't like the Simplicity/Riccar either and I tried them again yesterday and even the guy who sells them steered me away from them. His store demo wasn't too old and the cheap plastic around the hose for stress relief was already cracked. He told me that is the third demo that's happened too and that was done to correct the bad hose design. He's also seen a few come back because their controls on the handle kept breaking. He only will keep the line because the older people in FL like US made and that's all they'll look at. Even though the parts are sourced elsewhere, it's still a US company.

I bought the D4 and love it. Long hose, long cord, best power head I personally used but the Aerus is close. Not sure in a head to head who would win. It's plenty powerful as the hose is wider at the base unit creating a Venturi effect. It's L shaped and gets under all my furniture. It's also built like a tank and the filters are as good if not better than anything on the market. The little blue suction light is kind of cool. I thought I'd hate it at first, but I like it. Get white so it won't show scratches, lol. I have a demo black, but it still is looking new.

I did a full bag test of the D4, Capricorn and Moxie. D4 was the only one that didn't really lose any suction. With full bags the other two didn't work for crap. It's like a bagged cyclonic deal. They won some award in Germany for their suction design etc.. Go to www.govacuum.com... and see their video's on the Sebo D4. It's their pic for vacuum of the year. I only tried the turbo brush in the store, but it was on a shag and a deep pile and we put dirt down and rubbed it in deeply. We used the Miele and Moxie turbo heads and then cleaned the D4 bag and we picked up enough dirt to make me think their design may be a bit better. Not sure if it was a good test, but the guy in the store wasn't surprised as he sells the Sebo turbo head and the power nozzle with all his central vacuum systems. It's what most of the hospitals in Germany use.

I've learned a great deal about vacuums over here, but I've learned SO much more going to the stores and playing with all of them. The store I went to yesterday sells new, demo or sometimes used Filter Queen, TriStar, Sebo, Rainbow (had a newer one there), Riccar, Miele, Royal and many others. He's owned the stores he owns for ages. I asked him what he uses at home..........he uses the D4. Has used all the others and in the end he loves the new Sebo and said it's the best he's sold as they never come back. Said even Miele will have a bad run every now and then, but not too often. Said he gets all the Riccars back for small stuff. He likes Royal better than it's parent company's offerings, but has had a couple come back, but he said that it's not worth the price for what you are getting. Said the lower cost Panasonic has a poor motor that will last 3-5 years and he's seen a few back for motors within the first 90 days. To me that says something about the QC. I was in there getting my dads Panasonic fixed.

You should check out the jumbo thread we had/have going. NYC Writer started it as he was looking. I personally now like the Lux and Sebo D4 the best, but that's me. You may hate both.

The best advise I can share is to go play with all the vacuums in your price range and bring your own bag of dirt and crap. Force them to fill everyone's bag at least half full and then do the pick up the screws test to see which one keeps suction. That can be a telling test. If they have those filters the Kirby guys use that show how much dirt they pick up AFTER someone else's vac has been used, you could go that route too. I really liked what we did with the turbo brush as I too though I would need a powered head and that limited me to the vacs I ruled out even though I could have gotten them for a GREAT price. I found a guy in CT who gave me a great price on my Sebo and am happy.


Post# 215712 , Reply# 33   1/24/2013 at 23:28 (4,081 days old) by GeorgeCT (Fairfield, Connecticut)        
Fairfield CT

georgect's profile picture
@ctsooner...thanks for doing so much homework and passing it on to me.

OK...I'll add Sebo D4 into the running and exclude Riccar/Simplicity.


So I'll look into Aerus Guardian Platinum and Sebo D4.


Post# 215735 , Reply# 34   1/25/2013 at 03:33 (4,080 days old) by electromatik (Taylorsville, North Carolina, U.S.A.)        

Well eurekaprince, I don't know what to tell ya.... The tools are ON THE MACHINE. Just because you don't LIKE where they are located doesn't mean they are not there. That doesn't render the Platinum obsolete nor does it make a Kenmore superior to it. Frankly, that's pretty normal in the vac industry to provide those tools on board and many are putting them on the wands these days, including Hoover's Platinum. People can find anything to complain about if they nitpick. Some people here complain because they are IN the machine as well (they might have to bend over). The perfect machine doesn't exist, but no real vacuum person would call a Kenmore superior to an Aerus/Electrolux. Just about any vacuum salesman can attach a particle counter to a Kenmore with dirt in it's bag and a Miele with dirt in it's bag and show the Miele at zero and a Kenmore at 600,000. They don't filter well regardless of what consumer reports says.

Post# 215739 , Reply# 35   1/25/2013 at 04:19 (4,080 days old) by electromatik (Taylorsville, North Carolina, U.S.A.)        

The only Aerus tool that requires an adapter is the combo upholstery/dusting brush, which is stored on the wand caddy also... Incidently, it looks like Kenmore is putting some of it's tools on the wand handle area also, and using a "bulky" handle to enable multiple uses like Aerus ( hose handle into power nozzle, tools, wand, etc...) Kenmore's intuition doesn't have a power nozzle headlight... While it's Progressive doesn't have a variable speed motor. We're all hoping Aerus will update some of it's features further, but a perfect machine doesn't exist and perhaps never will...

Post# 215753 , Reply# 36   1/25/2013 at 07:49 (4,080 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

eurekaprince's profile picture
The Kenmore Intuition does indeed have a headlight - it's actually placed on the lower tip of the wand - which is a nice feature since you then have illumination on your cleaning surface when using the floor brush or any other attachment connected to the telescopic wand. It's time for Aerus to start including innovative conveniences like this on their vacuum cleaners.

I think all vacmakers should provide a handy tool carrier as part of their deluxe canister packages. If a customer is spending over $700 on a power nozzle canister, they deserve to have a convenient way of storing every accessory including bags and filters. Just my humble opinion....:-)


Post# 215754 , Reply# 37   1/25/2013 at 07:50 (4,080 days old) by ctsooner ()        
I'm up in Berlin and went all over

You'd be happy with either machine. As long as you put them through your OWN paces and come up with real tests and not the ones they design for you to show off special traits of their favorite machine or the one they want to get rid of, you'll do fine. Do make sure you check out the www.govacuum.com... video's on the D4. The guys knows what he's talking about. Since the mini brush is so important, get a scrap of your carpeting if you can and dirty the whole thing up at home. Bring extra with you. Use talc powder, baking soda, flour, heaver grain salt and course sugar. Then get some mud and dirt and let it dry into the carpet after you've smushed it into it. do a side by side and check the bags right after. Then clear the bag and use each one over there you did the other one and see which one pics up what the other didn't and see what type either left behind. Did either get bogged down? A mini PN may be a must for you and your carpet,but these new machines seem really powerful and should be able to not get too bogged down as long as they are designed properly. I played with the Sebo mini head for just a small bit and I'll be getting one. I won't get teh off brand one I don't thini.

Sebo guy, which mini head do you use? Have you seen a difference between Sebo turbo or the knock off that may fit?


Post# 215755 , Reply# 38   1/25/2013 at 09:03 (4,080 days old) by GeorgeCT (Fairfield, Connecticut)        
Do I bother looking at Kenmore?

georgect's profile picture
Is the Kenmore Intuition on par with Aerus Guardian Platinum or Sebo D4?

I think Kenmore is the only vacuum with everything on board which I love that convenience.


Post# 215759 , Reply# 39   1/25/2013 at 09:18 (4,080 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
NO

kirbyloverdan's profile picture
Kenmore is not on par with Aerus or Sebo .

The new Kenmore line has many problems and do not hold up . If you want a vacuum to last less than 3 years go for a Kenmore .


Post# 215760 , Reply# 40   1/25/2013 at 09:19 (4,080 days old) by GM1982 ()        
Kenmore vs Aerus vs Sebo

You cannot compare, they may have everything onboard, but the filtering is no where near Aerus or Sebo... Kenmore is comparable to Panasonic or Hoover. Made in Mexico or Made in China. I've tried out the Kenmore Intuition Upright, Kenmore (Red) Canister and I can tell you the build quality of the more expensive brands are much better. I do not think with Aerus and Sebo or other top of line brands you will find the hand turbo on board. They do this to probably keep down the weight of the machine.

Post# 215820 , Reply# 41   1/25/2013 at 17:01 (4,080 days old) by xraytech ()        

Like others here I would suggest an AerusLux. Another suggestion would be the Tristar, they seem very reliable, but not certain about tool storage or if it has an electric mini brush

Post# 215821 , Reply# 42   1/25/2013 at 17:02 (4,080 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        

durango159's profile picture
A few things:
-- Most canisters have a cord winder, they only fit a certain amount of cord. Most are 25'. The longest by far is the Sebo D4 and in my mind that is the only benefit of that machine. The Tacony Riccar & Simplicity lines are 28' most Kenmores and Panasonic are 24'- 26'
-- Most canisters on the market are made out of special well tested material that is known as "crush proof". You can step on it, crinkle it up, and it pops right back to life and some how electric current still works. It seems cheap and has a tendency while vacuuming to cut off suction when hose gets full tangled and twisted. But when you straighten the hose out everything pops back to life again. There are only a few companines without this style that still use the thick rubber, and primarily they are Aerus and Panasonic. Panasonic also makes the Kenmore canisters.
-- Most canister hoses are 6'. The Hoover, basic Kenmores, Mieles are all about 6'. Riccar/ Simplicity, Sebo are about 7'- 8' long.
-- Are you an allergy sufferer, I am. However despite being an allergy sufferer I do fine with the filtration on older Hoovers, new Hoovers, Kenmore's, Panasonics. If you are severely allergy allergic or are fearful of dust then you'll the newer sealed systems and excellent S Class HEPA filtration from Riccar, Simplicity, Aerus, Lindhaus, Miracle Mate, Sebo and of course your Miele.
-- As many of stated, there is no perfect machine. Just like there are Vanilla, Chocolate and Strawberry combo pack flavors of ice cream with everyone having a favorite there are many vacuums out there. The one to get depends a lot on the surfaces in your home. If you have hard wood floors, you want rubber coated or non marring wheels this would be the Royal Lexon SR30020, Simplicity, Miele and many others.
-- You mentioned your Miele power nozzle struggling on your thick carpets. Are we talking about 1" long very dense high pile carpet, 2.5" loose weave yarn style carpet or a shorter style yarn/ wool that's a little fluffier and dense but not as dense as a standard medium pile. For any of the looser weave carpets a manual height adjusted power nozzle is probably your best bet, such as Riccar, or Panasonic head. The Sebo heads DO NOT WORK AT ALL ON THE LOOSER WEAVE rugs!!! The circuit board kicks and shuts them off. So if you have those rugs, forget that brand it will be useless to you.

If I were you I would go with Riccar/ Simplicity. They are excellent high quality machines that are extremely durable. There were a few made abroad that were having problems which is why they have changed over their entire line in 2012 with new models that are all made in the U.S at their factory in Missouri. The overall fit/ finish, quality is superb over their previous. Riccars are very powerful. Most of the machines carry a 5 year warranty, while some carry a 3 year warranty. The power nozzles have a 6 position foot pedal activated adjustment, also push pedal handle release. Most of the full size power nozzle have a metal brush roll with 2 rows of brushes, the TOL machine from Riccar and Simplicity such as the Simplicity Gusto have 3 rows of brushes on the power nozzle. The power nozzles are very powerful with lifetime rated serpentine belts. Many would say that the power nozzle on the Riccars are more powerful than Filter Queen, and Aerus. It is also a significantly more powerful, better cleaner and easier to use machine over the Sebo D4.

Someone also mentioned the idea of a central vac. Yes the upfront price will be high for installation and unit. However once installed it has COUNTLESS benefits:
-- Household ammenity-- adds value to house for future sale
-- No emissions-- units vent outside so there is no dust emissions for the house
-- Extremely powerful-- Most central vacuums have tremendous more suction power over normal household vacuum
-- Sort of like using a canister as you're just maneuvering an electric power nozzle and hose.
--Most units are universal fit ends to utilize any number of attachments from Hoover, Kenmore, etc. You can attach the Wessel Werk MEB160 electric mini power nozzle too.
--Most hoses are 30', I would recommend getting the 35' just to ensure you won't have any problem reaching any area of your home. Utilizing the new "crush proof" style hoses they are much lighter weight compared to previous.
--Many power nozzles on the market. The Beam Rugmaster is based off the Eureka Express head and utilizes a well known VGIII brush roll. Or you can high performance and get a Riccar style power nozzle, you could even find the power nozzle that your Kenmore used, they are still on the market, and use that nozzle. Kenmore is just a name and there units were manufactured by Panasonic using Cen-Tec manufactured power nozzles.

I realize this is a lot to digest. I've been cleaning houses for 18 years, helping my clients choose vacuums that are appropriate for their households and excellent cleaning performance while being very efficient with in budget for me to use.

I strongly recommend going to your local trusted vacuum dealer to see what they recommend and what is comfortable for you to use. If you happen to have a sample of carpeting from your house that is hard to vacuum, bring it to the shop with you and the dealer can be more helpful for finding a machine.


Good Luck and feel free to contact my profile if you need further info.


Post# 215846 , Reply# 43   1/25/2013 at 18:22 (4,080 days old) by cue003 (S. FL, USA. )        

I don't see anywhere on Sebo's site mentioning that the D4 has HEPA filters. It is endorsed by the british allergy foundation however so that must mean something. None of the filters in the D4 I played with today looked like HEPA type filters. It even states in Sebo.us D4 brochure that its filters are cheaper than HEPA filters. The owners manual calls it out as a S-Class hospital grade micro filter.

So does that mean that the Sebo wont be as clean as say the Lux Guardian Platinum???


CLICK HERE TO GO TO cue003's LINK


Post# 215848 , Reply# 44   1/25/2013 at 18:38 (4,080 days old) by mieles7 (TX)        

mieles7's profile picture
This is what S-Class is. Pretty much HEPA.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO mieles7's LINK


Post# 215852 , Reply# 45   1/25/2013 at 18:43 (4,080 days old) by cue003 (S. FL, USA. )        

@Miles7, thanks for the clarification on the S-Class. Good to know.



Post# 215854 , Reply# 46   1/25/2013 at 18:46 (4,080 days old) by mieles7 (TX)        

mieles7's profile picture
That website has a ton of vacuum info that could help you out.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO mieles7's LINK


Post# 215858 , Reply# 47   1/25/2013 at 19:02 (4,080 days old) by floor-a-matic (somewhere)        

TriStar vacuums not only are powerful, but they are well-sealed & don't leak dust at all.  And no air escapes elsewhere other than the exhaust end, meaning only clean & filtered air comes out.

 

I'd bet NO other vacuum has 100"+ waterlift & 100% sealed HEPA filtration like a TriStar or the new Aerus Platinum!Surprised

 

btw, I upgraded my TriStar EXL's motor with the high-performance motor; so suction is INCREDIBLE!  I will be doing a lot more vacing with the EXL.Cool

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/220765583419?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648

 

I'm really a sucker for powerful 100"+ suction!Tongue out


Post# 215861 , Reply# 48   1/25/2013 at 19:28 (4,080 days old) by cue003 (S. FL, USA. )        

@floor-o-matic, does tri-star underrate their machines? I assume you are referring to the Tristar CS cleaner and their specs page says 86 inch H2O. I wonder what type of CFM this Tristar has.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO cue003's LINK


Post# 215864 , Reply# 49   1/25/2013 at 19:31 (4,080 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        

durango159's profile picture
I wasn't happy with the carpet grooming ability on the new TriStar. Now maybe with that new style green agitator that is supposed to be more aggressive bristle texture it's better.

One night at Vaccrazy's house, a collector on here. We used several vacuums that night. The TriStar MG style and a Sebo upright did not groom well compared to rest of competition. A Meile Blue Moon with SEB236 did very well, a Lux Classic canister did well, and a Silverado with PN4 did well along with several Hoovers that groomed very well and a Eureka Rotomatic power nozzle canister that did very well. Kirby Sentria groomed ok.


Post# 215866 , Reply# 50   1/25/2013 at 19:32 (4,080 days old) by ctsooner ()        
Sebo D4`

Durango, I know you've mentioned the run problem, but I have a few area rugs (especially the bathroom) that have the long loose thread dense carpets and I haven't had a problem with it yet. I"m not totally sure I understand what the problem can be. I have so many different surfaces in my house and so far the Sebo has been a dream. maybe that's because anything is an upgrade over the Oreck upright,lol. Also the filter is down to 3 microns I believe. It's why it's the first choice for hospitals in much of Europe under their parent company's name.

The powehead on it is great for me. Many of us really like the low profile and L shape of it to get in and around nearly all furniture.

Lux is a GREAT machine, but it would have cost me over 600 more than the 699 I paid and that's assuming someone would have sold it to me for 1299. To me, that was a no brainer in the end.

A big reason I never got excited over the Simplicity or Riccar upper end canisters is because the demo's in every store looked worn. Every dealer I've been to of either were selling off at low prices and all complained about problems even with the US made units. I even have seen the plastic deal around the ends of the hose to help with stress breaking off. I've yet to see one that wasn't broken and that scared me off no matter how much metal may be on the base plate of the power nozzle. I think it's still a great machine and worthy contender for many folks.

For me, I cared more about how good the suction was as the power nozzle with at least half full bags. Any machine can pick up most dirt when the bag isn't at least half full. The water tests don't mean much other than the suction AT the motor I believe. 95 on that meter is plenty as long as you have the technology to use it on the other end (PN end). Most of us don't seem to even use the suction on full most of the time.

I'm so new at this, but I fully understand engineering and I've done exhaustive research as it's been a ball for me to learn about your hobby.

As you pointed out, there are a few that just stand out for various reasons and until Riccar/Simplicity comes out with their new models that should give us most everything we feel any TOL machine is lacking now, we have the:

Tri Star
Fliter Queen
Rainbow
Miele S5 or better yet the new S8's
Sebo D4
Lux Plat


What else did I miss for canisters?

Sounds like you just need to see how important the long hose/cord deal is. Whittle the list from there and then figure out what you can go without since there is NO machine on the market that will give you everything you want right now. It's a shame as I bet this whole board could come to near consensus to what the perfect canister would be.


Post# 215870 , Reply# 51   1/25/2013 at 20:15 (4,080 days old) by vacu-finder ()        
Canister's Uggghhhhh.....

Man "O" Man::: How I hate dragging a Canister behind me.......what a pain, the hose is never, never, ever where you want it. On older vaccums the hose is forever getting kinked or even worse flipping the machine over, because you have tried to unravel it. Try cleaning a 2400 SQ.Ft. home with a cannister. Much easier and quicker with an uprite. Oh, and for stairs piece of cake..!!

My 2 cents get an Uprite with the bare fllor selector. My machine has no selector but it really does not matter because it causes no damage to the cheap laminate flooring.

UPRITES,,RULE.....:)


Post# 215885 , Reply# 52   1/25/2013 at 21:28 (4,080 days old) by ctsooner ()        
for me there is no question

that the upright isn't close to my new canister. I have half wood and tile. Maybe more. Now I can get under all my furniture and with my MS, it's easier to get the stairs and to dust. I'm sure the uprights can have a long hose to attach to do dusting and stairs, but that defeats the purpose for my money.

I'm glad you love the upright, but for many of us, a canister just makes so much more sense.


Post# 215925 , Reply# 53   1/26/2013 at 03:25 (4,079 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

Waited awhile before saying anything-my place has WW carpet.Kirby or metal Royal is first choice for the carpets.A companion Canister or canisters--all of 'em get a turn in my collection at some time or another.I have both Meile and Sebo canisters-like em both.the Sebo has the longer cord-so less outlet hunting.For really deep cleaning use My Kirby Sentria connected by its hose to my NSS M1 commercial canister.NSS M1 are heavy and large-they have HUGE paper bags-great for large job cleanups-for a breif time I was cleaning homes-that is what I used.Used an NSS powernozzle with the M1.His house had a central vacuum-he didn't like it-so I used the NSS-much better.Remember with central vacuums the unit has to pull thru all of that plumbing in the house-in the ones I have used-there is a suction and CFM loss.Esp if the system is old and debris will collect in the plumbing.I have cleaned some of these out-using the M1-surprizing how much dirt collects in the central vacs plumbing.Also I don't like dragging around cental vac hoses-more awkward to me than a portable machine.Portable machine filtration is much better these days-so the central unit filtration may be rather moot.Oh yes--when that freind moved from his place-used the M1 for the final cleanout.Did the garage,too!Just like using my M1!

Post# 216024 , Reply# 54   1/26/2013 at 15:16 (4,079 days old) by electromatik (Taylorsville, North Carolina, U.S.A.)        

Just correcting myself here... It appears I was incorrect regarding the Kenmore Progressive lacking variable speed motor. It does indeed have 3 speeds. Perhaps I was thinking of a blower function, which it lacks. I personally wouldn't buy one, but it is a decent vac as mass produced store brands go and might be the right choice for you. Good luck.

Post# 216027 , Reply# 55   1/26/2013 at 15:30 (4,079 days old) by fan-of-fans (USA)        

fan-of-fans's profile picture
The only brand of newer canister I have experience with is Kenmore. All of the Progressives (white, blueberry, and red) have variable speed controls. I have the red model. It has an 8 foot hose, the others have 6 and 7 foot hoses. The wand is telescoping and has a built in LED light like the Intuition. The attachments I find decent. Mine has a horsehair dusting brush, rubber-like upholstery tool, crevice tool, and horsehair bare floor tool. The crevice tool lets air leak at the sides so it doesn't provide much suction. The floor tool an upholstery tool store on the canister, the dusting brush and crevice tool are on the hose handle. The Pet Powermate tool stores on board the canister also.

Kenmore claims True HEPA AAFA certified. To get this, you must use the HEPA cloth bags which cost about $5 each.

The build quality is decent, but as others stated not as good as Miele, Aerus, etc.

The Intuition has more attachments, but it is quite expensive and I hear the floor nozzle that docks with the power nozzle has reliability problems with wheels falling off, etc. It has a horsehair dusting brush and angle brush that store on board as well as the crevice tool and Pet Powermate.


Post# 216028 , Reply# 56   1/26/2013 at 15:36 (4,079 days old) by filterqueenman (Park City UT)        
I get it!

filterqueenman's profile picture
George - You are going to get a ton as you can see options from Members here. I was in the same boat several years ago. I wanted to to put in a central system. I heard the good, the bad and the ugly. I visited with a reputable store and took several systems for a spin. I ultimately elected on a system and glad I did. I love central systems it fit how I clean and the house layout was perfect for it. Then...

The Army moved me to Utah. This house would never work with a central system. Too many tight corners and to many expansive spaces to make it feasible. I elected to get the New Rainbow and love it.

I have allergies and the salt plains here make for lots and lots of dust. The Rainbow is a perfect fit for ME! The system is all I could hope for and more. Would I do a central again? Yes, but not here. Maybe at retirement I will. For now the Rainbow is a good fit.

Like you I am not a fan of the Miele. The biggest issue is what I called "belly flopping" on plush carpet. The wheels are so small it would glide across the room on the belly. Leaving a nasty carpet mark and so I returned the machine the same day I got it.

The advice to take a carpet sample to the store is a great one; I plan to remember that if I buy another machine. Basically, go test drive them. Play with them and make the pro and cons list. You have been provided with a good list of great machines so good luck to you! The perfect machine for you is someplace, just got to find it!


Post# 216031 , Reply# 57   1/26/2013 at 16:00 (4,079 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
ctsooner ...

nycwriter's profile picture
"I'm glad you love the upright, but for many of us, a canister just makes so much more sense."

I second this motion.

I've been a die-hard upright user for four decades, but after visiting this website as I'm looking for a new vacuum (and keeping an open mind), I've had my own "Come to Jesus" moment about canisters, and how they really are much more appropriate for my Manhattan apartment.


Post# 216036 , Reply# 58   1/26/2013 at 16:27 (4,079 days old) by cue003 (S. FL, USA. )        

+1 on the canister. I too was an upright only until my current search.

Post# 216047 , Reply# 59   1/26/2013 at 17:52 (4,079 days old) by luxman107 (USA )        

I have 60 percent of my hose hard wood or tile and the rest carpet so canister is much better. Plus uprights just are practical for above the floor cleaning especially fo dusting furniture moldings etc.

Post# 216051 , Reply# 60   1/26/2013 at 18:02 (4,079 days old) by Eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

eurekaprince's profile picture
Actually, neither upright nor canister for me! Both!

Recent discussions at Vacuumland continue to prove to me that the wisest thing you can do is have an upright for carpets and a canister for everything else. The combination vacs are too complicated, heavy, and overengineered and the ones that come close to cleaning all surfaces well are overpriced. The wiring required to send power to a carpet nozzle makes these vacs have overly cumbersome hose handles and wands which are prone to electrical problems. And I do not like those cumbersome power nozzle hose handles that make it so tedious to clean cramped car interiors, bookshelves and other above the floor surfaces.

I don't buy the excuse that 2 vacs take up too much room. I live in a small bachelor/studio/one-room apartment in a highrise in central Toronto and I have plenty of room for my Hoover Tempo upright and my little Electrolux UltraSilencer Green. They take up no more than 3 feet by 1.5 feet in my closet. Both are high performing vacs, extremely lightweight and cost me under $500 together.

From my reading of Consumer Reports testing and brand reliability, the best vacuum team you can get now would be a Hoover Lightweight Platinum upright (the cheaper package without the portable canister) for carpets, and a Miele S2120 Olympus (red Contour in Canada) for everything else. If you want to splurge, you can upgrade the Miele with a "Home Care" accessory package for $150 which gets you a slim briefcase holding a big dusting brush, big upholstery nozzle and 1.5 meter hose extension.

So for $250 (Hoover upright) + $300 (Miele canister) + $150 (deluxe Miele attachments), you get a cleaning team that is far easier to use and far more high performing than any single combination vac on the market. And the team will not take up more than 1 x 1.5 meters of closet space!

Just my personal opinion friends....take it for what it's worth. :-)


Post# 216073 , Reply# 61   1/26/2013 at 20:43 (4,079 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
I prefer to

kirbyloverdan's profile picture
Spend as much money as possible to get great vacuums . Nothing but top of the line for me . I would never use big box store vacuums in my homes . Being a collector of quality vacuums for 40 years owning over 400 vacuums today's vacuums you can only get the best by purchasing TOL only . Yesterday's convertible hoovers and Eurekas were the last store bought vacuums that were made of the quality of today's D2D and TOL vacuum shop vacuums . If possible every home needs a TOL canister and TOL upright if you only could have two vacuums .

Post# 216096 , Reply# 62   1/27/2013 at 00:02 (4,079 days old) by floor-a-matic (somewhere)        
Tristar CS cleaner and their specs page says 86 inch H2O

They have the crappy, less powerful VM3 single-stage motor; but U can upgrade to the better 2-stage motor & the correct motor mount.

Here's a pic of the regular 2-stage motor by Ametek. #116311-01 which is one of the better motors.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Ametek-Lamb-...


Post# 216097 , Reply# 63   1/27/2013 at 00:28 (4,078 days old) by floor-a-matic (somewhere)        
High-performance motor

Even more powerful motor; which I put in my EXL & will also put in the DXL.

This is the motor that provides a whopping 100+ suction. #115923 also a 2-stage motor like the one above. If U want a TriStar, I have one on eBay with the high-performance motor. It's also another better quality motor than the single-stage VM3 motor the MG1, MG2, MG3 & CS canisters use.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Ametek-Lamb-...


Post# 216098 , Reply# 64   1/27/2013 at 00:49 (4,078 days old) by floor-a-matic (somewhere)        

Here is the TriStar EXL with the #115923 HP motor I have on eBay. An UNBEATABLE vacuum! You'll NEVER use any other vacuum once U own a TriStar with the #115923 motor. It even includes a MiniStar for vacing upholstery, stairs & automobile interiors.

Every Compact/TriStar (single speed models only) I get from eBay, curbside, garage sales, etc. & those that come in for repair get their motors replaced with the #115923 motor.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO floor-a-matic's LINK on eBay


Post# 216100 , Reply# 65   1/27/2013 at 01:06 (4,078 days old) by floor-a-matic (somewhere)        
@durango159

Does your TriStar PN have this style brush roller?

Every TriStar A101, EXL, MG1, MG2, MG3 & CS power nozzles & Aerus/Electrolux "L" shaped PN that comes in for repair, I put on this new & improved brush roller.

This brush roller has the extra turn of bristles, which help getting deeply imbedded dirt from carpets & really "self propels" forward. It even picks up pet hair with just one pass.

Can someone show me what the green brush roller looks like?


Post# 216335 , Reply# 66   1/27/2013 at 20:34 (4,078 days old) by cue003 (S. FL, USA. )        

That tri-star looks to be pretty sweet with that motor swap. Good job.


Post# 216458 , Reply# 67   1/28/2013 at 15:16 (4,077 days old) by ctsooner ()        
Didn't realize the cost of a new Tri Star

until yesterday. I also didn't know that they are owned by Lux and made at the same plant. I have learned a ton on this board in the last month or so. Interesting facts and part of the American way of door to door sales.

Post# 217331 , Reply# 68   2/3/2013 at 02:41 (4,071 days old) by GeorgeCT (Fairfield, Connecticut)        
I'm getting close to a decision...

georgect's profile picture
I'm heavily leaning toward the Riccar Immaculate Premier.

While the vacuum dealer I went to didn't have any Immaculate's for display, he had a 1500P that could play with.

He also showed me the Sebo D4, which he personally likes. But once I saw that tiny dust brush, I was like, forget it.

He said he would order for me the Immaculate Premier if that is what I wanted.
He also said he would sell to to me at 30% off MSRP and throw in a box of free bags.
(is that a good deal?)

I'm also thinking of getting the "Handheld Electric Brush"(HEB-R), a mini powered brush for using on stairs and furniture (even though the Immaculate Premier comes with the "Deluxe Handheld Turbo Brush").
The only thing is that if you want to plug the Handheld Electric Brush into the hose handle, you need to get the "Canister Mini Wand". Otherwise it only plugs into the power nozzle wand. MSRP is $129.95 for the electric brush and $24.95 for the mini wand.

Should I bother with extra HEPA filters and a extra belt (just in case)?

Price break down:
(MSRP)
Immaculate Canister - $1529.95
Handheld Electric Brush - $129.95
Mini Wand for Canisters - $24.95
HEPA Post Filter/Charcoal Filter $41.95
Power Nozzle Belt $9.95
Canister HEPA Bags (6) - (FREE)

Total $1736.75
- 30% discount (521.03) = $1215.72

Am I forgetting anything?


Post# 217340 , Reply# 69   2/3/2013 at 07:59 (4,071 days old) by GM1982 ()        

If you really like the vacuum and it fits your needs than go for it! Maybe you should try without the electric hand turbo and see how that works out before spending $150 on the electric one. The air driven might suffice. Riccar is like Aerus when it comes to pricing, it seems there is a fair amount of wiggle room, as they have a MSRP.

Post# 217401 , Reply# 70   2/3/2013 at 15:35 (4,071 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        

durango159's profile picture
Its a lot money. But I would go for it. A brand new Riccar Immaculate is a great vac.


The belt I would hold off on! The Riccars are warranted with lifefime belt warranty. There's very little maintenance needed with the Riccars.

The filters are a good idea. The premotor filter has a carbon interior and is great at removing smells. They are stated as do not wash, but I washed mine and have had no problem with it. I wouldn't soak it over night but handwashing in some Woolite for about 30 minutes and a thorough rinse and it came out great. The post motor filter has a 25 hour timer. After 25 hours of use a light will flash on your hose handle instruction you to "Service Filter". My filter looked fine at end of first 25 hour cycle. My flashing light just went off yesterday and I will be replacing the post motor HEPA filter this time.

The electric mini power head is your call. I personally would give the air turbine nozzle a try. At that point if not satisfied I'd even look into a separate corded hand vac with powered brush roll such as Hoover Sidewinder, or older style Dirt Devil hand vac. They're lightweight, easy to use and much more portable than taking out full size canister if you just want to clean a few things or flight of stairs. I'm very happy with my Hoover Sidewinders performance on carpeted steps. ***I use a smaller size belt than what came with unit and it runs stronger!


CLICK HERE TO GO TO Durango159's LINK


Post# 217422 , Reply# 71   2/3/2013 at 18:02 (4,071 days old) by funeraldirector (Boston)        
New Vacuum

George,

If you are set on the Riccar, drop down to the Simplicity Moxie/Riccar Impeccable. First that price is high and all you are getting is 3 brush strips on the P/N and a dirt sensor. You can add the roller later for the price of a bag of dog food. Shoot ctsooner an email. Pete got some prices that were half what you are going to spend for the same vacuum and he is right in CT. This doesn't make sense.

Second my understanding is those vacuums are rumored to be replaced later this year. Think 30% smaller with some very similar details that make Lux popular and a known mind-blowing power plant and I think you wish you waited. I have had those machines and they are very good just big like the Miele Blue Moon. The new one will be aimed squarely at, and compete better quality wise with Miele than these currently do. This design is old and was a carryover from their relationship with South Korea-based Daewoo. The new one will be sourced and manufactured in North America. This is the only machine comparable to a Lux Platinum in water lift. My last S36/Moxie pulled 115" and the Lux is 116."

With a price in the $1300's on the Riccar it makes sense to go with the Aerus Guardian Platinum and add an additional set of wands. It has a longer warranty and the electric Sidekick III. You won't miss the suction controls on the hose handle especially when the handle board dies. Most of the time you will run on high or the AUTO feature anyway and auto is sweet for rugs in front of the toilet/sink. As for the attachments on the P/N wands, four months later and I prefer them over the canister storage beneath the cover. Perhaps I am just getting lazy. Bag costs are the lowest of all TOL brands and filter well. No vacuum maker puts out a floor tool or above floor accessories that is better than Lux. Period. No vacuum is easier to use or has the 3 european certifications for HEPA the Intelligence/Platinum has.

The Miele Capricorn is a nice unit, good quality, excellent performance and has some design issues I think could be corrected (you hit most of the hot spots) that would make it more enjoyable to use than merely look at. Having had almost every TOL unit for several years, EVERY machine has design issues that need to be corrected and Miele is one of the best, but not the only example of this.

Brian


Post# 217447 , Reply# 72   2/3/2013 at 20:29 (4,071 days old) by ctsooner ()        
wow,this is interesting

George, shoot me an email. The Lux is the way to go if you are going over 1k, but make sure you like their tools. If you want Riccar/Simplicity, then email me as they had three new Moxies for 599 and he'd throw in a bunch of tools and bags as he wants to get rid of them. I really liked the vacuum, but the Sebo won out. I only paid a bit more for the D4.

I will put my Sebo update here:

I have had NO problems with the carpets. I'm not sure how often you guys change height on your PN, but I keep mine on 2 and have only lowered it once and it's worked perfectly. My carpets already look better and I think it even smells better around here, lol. The sand in between the boards of my wood floor (winter shrinkage) is almost all gone. I love how this cleans all floors. Glad I do have the suction control on the handle. That's the only control I really need with this machine. I use the parking deal all the time. I still like the lights on the top telling me how much suction I'm using. The machine filters as well as a hepa. I have a woodshop as I make furniture for fun and I use hepa filters down there. This thing is quiet enough and it has cleaned under everything I own. I love the L head. I like it much much more than a regular head and won't go back I don't think. I have had to take the brush out a bunch to clean it as my dogs, wife's long blonde hair and string dropped everywhere has me cleaning the brush after each use. it was so easy to take out and clean it. I loved that part. It's been really easy to move around and I appreciate the longer hose and cord. I can get much of the way up my stair case and then I get the top few stairs when I get the vac upstairs. It just feels stable to me and the wheels work well on all surfaces. The wand is a breeze to use also. It all just snaps easily into place and securely, I take it apart to store and I love how the main unit stands on end as it makes it so easy to keep in the closet..

Yes, I'd buy this again and am very happy with it. I never loses suction like the others all did in the stores when their bags were filled up. My cleaning woman LOVES it too and said she may try to buy one if she can get teh money for it. She's using the Kenmore Industrial top of the line and likes it better than all except my Sebo and the Lux Platnium that my neighbor bought after I told him about it, lol. He had to have the most expensive toy. That said, my cleaning woman said that the Sebo cleans just as well and has said that it's just as easy to use too. It must be the power nozzle as the motor on the Sebo isn't quite as powerful, but it's powerful enough. She has also used the Riccar TOL and doesn't like it as much as the Sebo or Lux. She noticed the same thing with the plastic collar on the hose for stress relief......they crack and break very easily. I've seen that in a couple of the stores I went to also and that's why I didn't go with the Moxie (before I came to this board I nearly bought a Moxie).

Some don't care about the hose length or cord length of the Miele, but many seem to. Lux seems to have a winner in most areas. One last thing abotu teh size of the tools....so far it hasn't mattered. I've had no problems as they are still full size. I love the shape of the brush as does the cleaning woman. It gets into corners and places the round ones can't. I'll take the shape over the size of the other ones all day long. It's also easier to clean the car with it. I usually just use one of my shop vacs for the car and still will, however I am going to do a dry shampoo and then use the Sebo to see how well it does, although I have a strong idea that it will work great on my nice auto carpets.


Post# 217467 , Reply# 73   2/3/2013 at 22:08 (4,071 days old) by GeorgeCT (Fairfield, Connecticut)        
ohhhh....

georgect's profile picture
Looks like I may have to wait and see if Riccar comes out with new (hopefully) even more improved models.

Thanks guys!


Post# 217469 , Reply# 74   2/3/2013 at 22:20 (4,071 days old) by Durango159 (State College, PA)        

durango159's profile picture
Simplicity/ Riccar had a hose material problem. My old one broke, I got a replacement under warranty and the new, improved material is terrific!! It's very flexible and seems much more durable. The buttons on the hose also have a much better protection to them. I love the attachments on the Riccar.

I've used Lux's in the past and don't like their upholstery nozzle. The folding fins are all plastic with no bristles, rubber fingers or anything else and the edges are sharp. I have not found it good for delicate upholstery, pet hair, etc.


Post# 217476 , Reply# 75   2/4/2013 at 01:56 (4,070 days old) by utahprideboy (Southern Utah)        
George ct

For what you are looking for I would recommend a new lux guardian canister 2008 model, some dealers still have a few new in box ones! They have what your looking for! Longer cord remote handle sidekick 2 which I love , tools on board and you can get the bigger dusting brush and adapter for the 6500 to fit! I like the one for the guardian it's just about the right size for dusting! You can see my video at YouTube/utahprideboy/AerusGuardian Canister! It doesn't have as much water lift as the platinum but I think it dose an amazing job at cleaning! And the R bags hold more dirt! Same P/N motor and brush as the platinum! I do have to say I do love my platinum and I think if you got one you would too i just miss having the remote controlled handle, as I have said before speeds on the machine are fine I just with they had the on/off switch for the whole machine on the handle!

Just my input
Daniel


Post# 217497 , Reply# 76   2/4/2013 at 07:59 (4,070 days old) by MikeKLondon ()        
Miele Points

I am sorry to say that I have to agree with your points about Miele, it work well in my small home in the UK but I do wish whey would make a longer softer hose + the model with a PN is no longer sold over here.

Not sure if you have them in the US but one of the best vacuums in the UK is a Nilfisk and they made a PN over here for the GM80 the only bad point is the is no lower speed for vacuuming had made rugs or I would have one now


Post# 217863 , Reply# 77   2/6/2013 at 09:29 (4,068 days old) by GeorgeCT (Fairfield, Connecticut)        
Vacuum Convention Week of 2/10 - 2/16

georgect's profile picture
I told the vacuum guy I saw for the Riccar Immaculate, that word on the internet (vacuum forum) is that there should be new models coming later this year for the Riccar and I'm gong to hold off at this time.

He told me he actually will be attending a vacuum convention next week (the week of Feb 10'th) and would pass on any information on to me.

Does any think images or info. would leak onto the internet so we can get a sneak peak at what's coming?


Post# 217864 , Reply# 78   2/6/2013 at 09:42 (4,068 days old) by GM1982 ()        

Sometimes you might find a sneak peak or some images online, but most vacuum companies do a poor job of updating their websites and have difficulty understanding the concept of marketing and promotion through the internet and social media. Vacuums as an appliance, not like other products such as TVs computers and cell phones put up the latest information in advance of product release on the website.

For example with Aerus, the platinum did not appear on the website until a few days prior to sales. Also, they still do not have an adequate shop online or buy now tab as well as the ability to purchase additional accessories online. Rather one must call the distributor or 800 number. Very 1980s IMHO



Post# 217865 , Reply# 79   2/6/2013 at 09:59 (4,068 days old) by GM1982 ()        
Futhermore,

If you can wait and have the time to explore vacuums and wait to see what will come as new models that's a good idea. I do the same thing with cars and cell phones, my other interest. Subscribe to magazines, online forums, etc... But for now, as far as the high end brands go, I think Riccar/Simplicity is still in transition, trying to onshore its manufacturing and getting the "Made In USA" slogan to alter consumer choice against Miele. Rainbow and Kirby seem to be a direct sales mainstay. Aerus seems to be coming back out of slumber, becoming a solid vacuum cleaner. I think both Miele and even moreso, Sebo have solid product lines made in Germany. Not perfect, but they have a solid business strategy and understand how to build and market an easy to use reliable vacuum. Most of all, they are more readily available and found in vacuum stores and online.

Post# 217868 , Reply# 80   2/6/2013 at 10:39 (4,068 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
George

kirbyloverdan's profile picture

you seem to be very unaware of how Aerus works .This is how Aerus operates you call the 800# and a Salesman will deliver your purchase of any part , bag , filter ect. for FREE .

 

No other brand like Miele & Sebo will do that , it may seem very 80`s to you but thats how Aerus/Electrolux has operated since day one and thats what their customers love and continue to purchase Aerus products because of excellent customer service .

 

Dan




This post was last edited 02/06/2013 at 11:15
Post# 217871 , Reply# 81   2/6/2013 at 11:00 (4,068 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
Good point, Dan ...

nycwriter's profile picture
... Point-and-Click buying on the Internet may be convenient, but it's in the realm of companies that gave up on customer service a looooooong time ago, and have embraced the Internet as the way to completely dehumanize sales.

Post# 217872 , Reply# 82   2/6/2013 at 11:04 (4,068 days old) by GM1982 ()        
Dan

that's incorrect, that is how Aerus should work, but it doesn't! I called the number and salesman came over to deliver bags, hepa filter and clean sweep chips for $80.... Totally not free! never heard of such thing. If that was true, I bet there would be a many more people owning an Aerus vacuum

Post# 217874 , Reply# 83   2/6/2013 at 11:12 (4,068 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
George

kirbyloverdan's profile picture

you are not understanding what I am saying . They will not give you free products , the delivery of the items are free . You are playing with me I am sure because no one would ever expect to get free products . You can not be serious thinking a company would give you free bags filters and clean sweep chips for free . Please tell me your are joking George .

 

Dan


Post# 217875 , Reply# 84   2/6/2013 at 11:15 (4,068 days old) by NYCWriter (New York City)        
Good point, Dan ...

nycwriter's profile picture
... Point-and-Click buying on the Internet may be convenient, but it's in the realm of companies that gave up on customer service a looooooong time ago, and have embraced the Internet as the way to completely dehumanize sales.

Post# 217876 , Reply# 85   2/6/2013 at 11:17 (4,068 days old) by GM1982 ()        

re-read what you wrote prior... you made it sound like you get the supplies for free.... of course delivery would be free, why wouldn't it? But, no, I did not think the supplies would be free- I know you have to pay for them. I realized your typo... I still think you should just be able to go on the website and order your supplies and have them shipped, that's my opinion. I don't need a salesperson to come over to sell me parts, just a fed ex box is good

Post# 217878 , Reply# 86   2/6/2013 at 11:25 (4,068 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
Well George

kirbyloverdan's profile picture

anyone who knows Aerus / Electrolux know that the products ordered are delivered the same day in most cases which I prefer over fedex .

I had to correct my last post because you did not understand me but Matt knew exactly what I was talking about with out the correction . I will have to remember in the future to add as many words as possible to make sure what I write is understood by everyone . Laughing

 

Dan


Post# 217880 , Reply# 87   2/6/2013 at 11:33 (4,068 days old) by Smith (North Carolina)        
Fed Ex

I know at my store we offer Fed Ex shipping if you do not want the supplies delivered by a rep. Most people choose the free delivery because they also get a free service check while we are there. I cannot speak for other locations but I would imagine they would ship also.

Post# 217888 , Reply# 88   2/6/2013 at 11:44 (4,068 days old) by GM1982 ()        

The sarcastic humor is always appreciated...its an appliance chat board, geez! relax.... anyone can comment and add to the chats. I like Aerus, but its ass backwards...

Post# 217890 , Reply# 89   2/6/2013 at 11:52 (4,068 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
George

kirbyloverdan's profile picture

it`s not sarcasm I am very passionate about vacuums and I am trying to teach you about Aerus which seems like you dont understand how the company works . Aerus has been run that way since day one and the customers love that . If they didnt like the way Aerus operates they would have been out of business years ago . You are a very rare person not liking Aerus`s excellent customer service .

Thats why there are many other brands out for you to purchase hopefully you find a brand that will please you . Good luck

 

Dan


Post# 217911 , Reply# 90   2/6/2013 at 13:41 (4,068 days old) by GM1982 ()        

I understand where you are coming from, and see you know a lot about vacuums and Aerus in particular and respect that, however, I seem to have creative ideas for the direction of Aerus's future, rather than the diehard ways. ( What is the demographic for Aerus? Do you know? ) As a customer, I do not consider the customer service of Aerus "excellent" by any means. Maybe in your region it operates much better. Like I have said before, I like Aerus and want to continue to own their products, but I am on the fence in regards to the fit, finish and quality of the overall product. I think there are other brands that surpass the upright and most of the canister line of Aerus. The Platinum is the only exception as I have tried one out last week and like it a lot. Their air purifiers are basically a re-bagged Blue Air that can be purchased for less online.

Post# 217926 , Reply# 91   2/6/2013 at 17:30 (4,068 days old) by ctsooner ()        
how do they figure out what store will deliver

to you when ordering things? Just curious more than anything. I assume they have territories that are figured out and all. Can you just call the shop of your choice? What is the range they'd deliver do you think? I still keep thinking I may sell the Sebo eventually and get the TOL Lux, but I'd want to chose who services it etc...

thanks


Post# 217938 , Reply# 92   2/6/2013 at 19:27 (4,068 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)        
Peter

kirbyloverdan's profile picture

you just call your local store or store of choice .

 

Dan


Post# 217977 , Reply# 93   2/7/2013 at 06:46 (4,067 days old) by cue003 (S. FL, USA. )        

@ctsooner, that Lux Guardiam Platinum is calling your name. :) it seems to be on many people's minds. Let me know if you decide to sell your D4 for a good price.


Post# 217978 , Reply# 94   2/7/2013 at 07:06 (4,067 days old) by GM1982 ()        

If your going to sell the Sebo D4 for the Lux you should do it sooner rather than later before its gets those signs of useage or scratches. I think the Sebo is a great vacuum, but if you were to get the Lux figuring you might score $500-600 selling the Sebo, you would still probably have to fork up another $600 or so for the Lux. I think that's a lot of money for gaining maybe one or two more minor features over the Sebo

Post# 217981 , Reply# 95   2/7/2013 at 08:10 (4,067 days old) by GeorgeCT (Fairfield, Connecticut)        
What are the minor features gain...

georgect's profile picture
George, what features would one gain with the Sebo D4 over the Aerus Platinum?

Post# 217982 , Reply# 96   2/7/2013 at 08:17 (4,067 days old) by GM1982 ()        
George CT

I think that's a lot of money for gaining maybe one or two more minor features over the Sebo.

Re-read my statement... (over the Sebo) An electrified mini turbo, LED headlights and rubber hose if you really want to count that.


Post# 217986 , Reply# 97   2/7/2013 at 09:05 (4,067 days old) by ctsooner ()        
You guys are most probably right about switching

I do love the Sebo and it does a great job. I will be staying with the Sebo and if newer, better, smaller machines start to hit the market in the future, I'll make a decision then. I have a strong feeling that Riccar/Simplicity will be coming out with an incredible model and that will push the others even further.

Post# 217989 , Reply# 98   2/7/2013 at 09:11 (4,067 days old) by GeorgeCT (Fairfield, Connecticut)        
I hope so Peter

georgect's profile picture
I'm really hoping Riccar/Simplicity will fulfill all my wants and needs in a vacuum but I want it full sized with full sized accessories (along with long cord, hose, on board attachments).
I can't wait to see what they've come up with. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.


Post# 217990 , Reply# 99   2/7/2013 at 09:15 (4,067 days old) by cue003 (S. FL, USA. )        

Great points and I do agree that the increase in features (subjective) that you get over say the Sebo or some of the other models doens't make up the difference in cost that is associated with the Lux.

Post# 217994 , Reply# 100   2/7/2013 at 10:12 (4,067 days old) by ctsooner ()        
Cost is a huge issue

As an audiophile since I was 13, I understand that the more you go up in cost, you get incremental boosts. I have always prided myself on choosing the best products at various price points and knowing the market to find value items that work well together for less than the TOL products.

I find vacuums similar. It's all about taste and what gadgets you may want. I never cared about bells and whistles on my audio gear. I still run tube amps and preamp on my main system and I use a turntable and vinyl too. It's time to retube and that is costly, but the sound is addictive to anyone who has hear a proper tube set up.

I think in vacuums, that Miele, Lux and Kirby have set the price bar. I chose these three as they are the most known/available high end canisters and uprights. All of their TOL are basically around 1500 give or take. From there you go down in price, but you may loose features or power or build quality and it's up to you to figure out what you can and want to live with.

So many on this forum love Hoovers, Sears or Panasonics. Taking nothing away from them, but they are not in the same league as the Sebo, Lux, Tri STar, Kirby, Rainbow, Miele, Riccar/Sim or any of the other 'high end' models out there. They just aren't, but that doesn't mean they can't clean as good. It depends on how you clean and what you clean. The big difference will be cost over 10 years. That's what I went with when I broke the bank to buy a 700 vacuum. My wife wasn't happy of course as she wanted a nice box store model that she's known from TV ads. I didn't want to go disposable. I wanted some control on the wand handle. I wanted one that would stand up over time and look good in 5 years. I wanted a good filter system. Those were just my wants and I found what I was looking for. I'd change a few things on the D4 if I could, but overall, I'm very very pleased and I like looking at it and using it. That's what counted to me.

George has to have large tools and they much be onboard (I wanted them on board, but didn't care about size as long as they work good and in my home I love the sizes of the onboard tools as they reach the spots I need them too). Some would have wanted the 16" head, but I didn't. I did want white, but took black as that was the demo and the price was right.



Post# 218003 , Reply# 101   2/7/2013 at 11:01 (4,067 days old) by cue003 (S. FL, USA. )        

Everyone/Everything has tradeoffs. That is probably why we have so many freaking options. When we were deciding my life didn't like certain things about certain cleaners. And some of the things that bothered her didn't worry or bother me.

For example:
Sebo.. she didn't like the way you had to bend down to adjust the wand (closer to the bottom of the wand of the wand and you had to pull up on it). She also didn't like having to bend down to adjust the carpet height on the PN. We have 5 different rugs that have 3 completely different settings for cleaning so the adjustments need to be made each time we clean. She didn't like that when you open the Sebo the bag dust cover was not automatically closed (didn't bother me since the flap is right there to close it). We loved the cord length and hose length but the hose still wasn't long enough for how we wanted to clean our house.

Aerus.. went to 3 dealers and she didn't like the experience we had at any of them (2 of them owned by the same person come to find out) so that made it automatically a no go simply based on experience with the establishment.

Tristar.. wide open dust chamber was an immediate turn off for her. For me I looked at it as a potential plus since she drops stuff all the time (especially her earrings and other jewelry) and with the Tristar I could at least try to find it in the bag if it got sucked up by the vacuum.

Kirby.. childhood experiences ruled it out. heavy on the carpet side and we would have looked closer to the Kirby and the Royal Metal series.

My point of all this is that best is going to be determined not just by cleaning power and features but also by the way you go about cleaning and what it is you have to clean.... as well as the frequency by which you clean.

Too bad we can't create a hybrid setup... size of the Miele, cord of the Sebo, wand of the Lux/Tristar (maybe) and canister wheels (for thick carpets) of the Henry (maybe).....not sure who I would choose for airflow/suction (maybe Miele again)... etc


Post# 218004 , Reply# 102   2/7/2013 at 11:05 (4,067 days old) by cue003 (S. FL, USA. )        

oh yeah and I forgot, we looked at Simplicity/Riccar as well. She felt for the money spent the Miele/Sebo was a better...and above all she said they don't look as nice as the Miele/Sebo. LOL. At some point the looks do come into play and the blue color of the Marin was right up her alley. :)

Rainbow...she said NO WAY to changing the water and stuff on a regular basis. She said you buy that and you will be the ONLY person vacuuming ever.. too gross for her. I didn't like that option so it got checked off.

Happy wife, happy life. :)

Thanks guys.



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