Thread Number: 19432
Help, Kenmore Direct Drive brush roll spinning backwards..
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Post# 215371   1/22/2013 at 20:47 (1,670 days old) by stricklybojack (Southern California)        

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My new (demo from ebay liquidator) Intuition (blue green model) upright is a bear to use, come to find out it's because the brush roll is turning the wrong way! It will creep backwards if left on & let go of... I think this is a common problem on this version of the model. I thought it was the front wheel size but i found another, the red version & it's a breeze to use & the brush roll spins in the right direction. Is this a reversal of polarity issue or something? i'm a bit handy & if someone could point me in the right direction on how to sort this out i would appreciate it greatly.

Post# 215489 , Reply# 1   1/23/2013 at 17:08 (1,669 days old) by fan-of-fans (USA)        

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According to Sears, that vacuum actually has not just one, but two motors in its brushroll. I'm guessing the problem could be in a circuit board somewhere? Not sure how both motors could be turning backwards.

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Post# 215502 , Reply# 2   1/23/2013 at 18:35 (1,669 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)        

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I think you may be reading that incorrectly....the vac has 2 motors: one in the brushroll and a suction motor below the bag chamber....don't see any line touting a 3 motor set up. :-)

Post# 215513 , Reply# 3   1/23/2013 at 20:27 (1,669 days old) by kirbykid (this user is not allowed to sell anything on Vacuumland)        

is the brush motor wired backwards? i had that happen with a train. dont know if it could happen to a vacuum

Post# 215516 , Reply# 4   1/23/2013 at 20:46 (1,669 days old) by fan-of-fans (USA)        
Wrong link

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At this link, if you click on Experience Center, then Intuition, then "Advanced Beltless Technology" they mention that it has a 3-motor system.

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Post# 215517 , Reply# 5   1/23/2013 at 20:51 (1,669 days old) by aeoliandave (Stratford Ontario Canada)        

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It's entirely possible that the power head motor is supplied with lower voltage DC voltage to avoid a shock hazard if liquid was accidentally ingested.
In which case reversed wires would definitely cause the motor to run in reverse.

Does it use a belt or gear drive?


Post# 215519 , Reply# 6   1/23/2013 at 20:56 (1,669 days old) by stricklybojack (Southern California)        
A brush roll assembly...

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is on the way free of charge. Weird to have it drive itself backwards across the floor. Will be nice to get it sorted out.

Post# 364137 , Reply# 7   12/24/2016 at 14:43 (238 days old) by stricklybojack (Southern California)        

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Well it's taken 3 years but i finally decided to try and get this sorted. After sitting along with 10 other half or fully disassembled vac projects i cleaned off the work bench and decided to first see if i could even get it back together...after the little amount of taking it apart i did way back when. Okay that was crazy difficult but now done. Did it fix itself? Nope. Okay get 'er apart snap some picks and see what the Vaclanders say.
7 wires come from the fan motor: 2 black, 2 red, 1 yellow, 1 blue, and 1 much thicker brown wire. 4 enter each side of the powered brush roll 2 white, 1 black and 1 red. There is an "overload reset" (2 wires 1 white and 1 blue) and a dirt sensor (3 wires red, yellow, black) of red and green lights also in the mix.

So far i know this TOL aqua marine blue is one of the nicest looking plasti-vacs i' know of, and it is stupid hard to reassemble.
Your thoughts on the matter are most welcome.

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Post# 364140 , Reply# 8   12/24/2016 at 15:48 (238 days old) by stricklybojack (Southern California)        

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I should mention, i was never sent a replacement "brush roll assembly", they sent a replacement vacuum. It is identical to the one on my work bench, and if need be i will use it as a guide...but the disassembly is so off-putting i would rather not.

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Post# 364158 , Reply# 9   12/25/2016 at 15:17 (237 days old) by panasonicvac (Seattle, Washington)        

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I also liked the looks of that Kenmore, it was the last Kenmore upright by Panasonic that I liked because of the looks, I didn't care much about the looks of the Elite that replaced the blue intuition but I hear it still cleaned about just as well as the blue intuition. I never used the blue one before but I used the silver version of this at Sears one time but it only had one motor on the brushroll instead of two, I don't know the actual performance difference between the silver and the blue model but I would've been curious if the blue one actually did better on carpets than the silver one.

To be honest, I never liked the beltless system that Kenmore uses on their uprights. I liked the idea but I never find them to clean just as well as other uprights that uses a belt, plus the cost for repairing them is just ridiculous (More expensive than buying a whole new regular brushroll). I've used a Panasonic MC-V7407D that also had a beltless design on it. Panasonic used to use these brushrolls on some of their uprights but alot of dealers didn't like them and Panasonic later decided to not use them on their vacuums anymore, Sears really liked them so Panasonic kept making these brushrolls for Kenmore. I actually really liked this Panasonic because I thought the rotation on the brushroll spun just as well as a regular belted Panasonic upright and I really liked the design of the nozzle because it felt like it was hitting the carpet really good. My buddy and I wished Panasonic would've still made these models but it was definitely one of the most expensive Panasonics that my buddy has ever repaired.

(These photos are not mine)

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Post# 364167 , Reply# 10   12/25/2016 at 23:02 (237 days old) by cam2s (Nebraska)        

I have an older version of this. It is a bit of bulky machine, but I really like it. It is an innovative machine and it cleans well. I have taken my apart, and yes it is a bear to take apart. I don't know really know off hand about why it would spin backwards, my guess is there is a wire crossed somewhere. I can crack mine open and take some reference pictures of the wiring if that would be helpful for you.


Post# 364175 , Reply# 11   12/26/2016 at 09:37 (237 days old) by pinkge (Indianapolis,Indiana)        
Have you.....

got it in reverse drive?

Post# 364185 , Reply# 12   12/26/2016 at 15:22 (236 days old) by Stricklybojack (Southern California)        

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There is no switch for the direction of "drive". My hope is the machine was miss wired and a quick swaping around of a couple of wires will sort it out. I was originally thinking to simply flip the brush roll the opposite way around as it is a uniform design, but the wires are custom cut for each side and thus too short. I may just end up splicing in enough extension and try that.
I really just need to speak with someone who knows exactly how these operate and let them talk me through it.

Post# 364190 , Reply# 13   12/26/2016 at 17:27 (236 days old) by vac-o-matic (Saint Louis, Mo.)        

I have the purplish first one Kenmore version. I ordered a NOS brushroll from ebay, and it rolled backwards as well. I took it out to my friends vac shop, and she switched a couple of wires and was good to go. I think she had seen that issue before, she just knew what to do. I on the other hand have to rely on those who are talented in repairs as I am not! The old one had more brush strips than the new one, but my original was shot, and the new one seems to clean the same.

Post# 364346 , Reply# 14   12/29/2016 at 20:29 (233 days old) by cam2s (Nebraska)        

I got home from my holiday travels and had time to pop this beast apart. Unfortunately yours is much more complex than mine! Mine only has 4 wires. I'll put pictures up as a reference anyways. If it were my machine...I would probably start by switching the wires that lead into the brushes and see if that helps. Anyways sorry I can't be of more help


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