Thread Number: 18038
removing/cleaning Filter Queen fans? 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 197125   8/24/2012 at 15:59 (4,260 days old) by dustin (Jackson, MI)        

dustin's profile picture
I recently inherited a Princess 2 (Filter Queen) and it has been run without a filter at one point. I have it disassembled down to the motor, but I can't figure out how to remove the cover over the fans to clean them, as they are massively caked in dust. It runs ok, but doesn't have much suction at all, and I think all the dirt in the fans is the culprit. Thanks!

Post# 197133 , Reply# 1   8/24/2012 at 16:15 (4,260 days old) by kenkart ()        
Its a little bit involved..

 But not very difficult, First ,take a dull knife, and a hammer!, start at what looks like a seam about mid way of the fan housing, the front cover is actually pressed on, thake the blade of the knife, place against the seam at a forward angle"toward the front of the motor, "and tap lightly with the hammer, gradually rotating the housing a little after each tap, when it comes off, then remove the fan nut, the washer, the fan, then remove the bottom section of housing, then the spacer and the other fan..run all parts thru your dishwasher, re assemble,.

Post# 197136 , Reply# 2   8/24/2012 at 16:35 (4,260 days old) by kirbylux77 (London, Ontario, Canada)        

kirbylux77's profile picture
Dustin, can I make a suggestion here? If the fan blades are caked in dust, there is an easier way to remove it. Go ahead & take one of your Kirby's, set it up in blower mode, & put the crevice tool on the end of the hose. Then use it on the motor, & you'll be amazed at how much dust you will get out of it.

I found a Eureka Maxima bagless vacuum last year that had a loud motor & poor suction because of dust buildup- blowing out the motor cured it & made it much quieter & restored it's power! I have also found that you can extend the life of exhaust HEPA filters if you blow them outside with a crevice tool on the end of the hose to concentrate the airstream.

Hope you get your Princess back up & running well.

Rob

Post# 197138 , Reply# 3   8/24/2012 at 16:38 (4,260 days old) by kenkart ()        
I Agree!!

 If its not too bad, the way suggested by Rob will work fine...Im used to rebuilding Lamb motors so what I suggested is much more involved.

Post# 197139 , Reply# 4   8/24/2012 at 16:43 (4,260 days old) by dustin (Jackson, MI)        

dustin's profile picture
I will try blowing it out, but it is really nasty.

Post# 197164 , Reply# 5   8/24/2012 at 18:23 (4,260 days old) by kirbylux77 (London, Ontario, Canada)        

kirbylux77's profile picture
Dustin, if it's really that bad, then try blowing it out wearing a white drywall dust mask on....that way you won't breathe any of it in. Plus, think of it this way....even if that doesn't work, it will still remove some of the dust when you go to take the motor apart & wash the fans, so either way it's gonna help.

Thanks for your comment, Hans....much appreciated! Especially coming from someone who probably has TONS more experience rebuilding motors than I do.

Rob

Post# 197167 , Reply# 6   8/24/2012 at 18:38 (4,260 days old) by dustin (Jackson, MI)        

dustin's profile picture
I actually blew it out with compressed air, it took about half an hour to stop blowing dust out, and chunks of hardened dust (I have an odd feeling it was also used as a wet vac at one point or another...) Reassembled everything, and it seems to have a bit more suction, but still not what I would expect.

Post# 197169 , Reply# 7   8/24/2012 at 18:43 (4,260 days old) by eurekastar (Amarillo, Texas)        

eurekastar's profile picture

I wonder if someone simply ran it without the filter cone.  I've owned a couple of Filter Queens in the past and there wasn't a speck of dirt in either motor.  They are great vacuums!

 
Post# 197180 , Reply# 8   8/24/2012 at 19:40 (4,260 days old) by kirbyvertibles (Independence, KS)        

kirbyvertibles's profile picture
wow those things pull 100 on suction meters. I wonder why it's not what you excpected. Are you sure it's the original motor? I have had some come in that just don't pull what mine does and I find that it has a generic replacment.

Post# 197190 , Reply# 9   8/24/2012 at 19:58 (4,260 days old) by dustin (Jackson, MI)        

dustin's profile picture
It is definitely the original motor, and it had been run without a filter cone or disc filter. I had to throw away the final filter matting because it was nasty and I have yet to order a new one. I plan on getting that soon, but that shouldn't have much if any affect on performance. I don't know what posessed a certain person to use it with no filter, but it happened twice, then they finally got a shop vac and the Princess came to live with me. Now I'm just trying to get it working properly after years of being used as a shop vac.

Post# 197199 , Reply# 10   8/24/2012 at 22:09 (4,260 days old) by eurekastar (Amarillo, Texas)        

eurekastar's profile picture

You might want to completely disassemble the motor and wash it thoroughly.  But the other thing that will put a drag on the motor is bad bearings.  That's the other thing I would take a look at changing.  Also, you may have dirt and crud in the brush holders.  That can prevent the brushes from making good contact with the commutator.  When I wash the fans, I first soak them in warm water with a little laundry detergent.  Then I use a bottle brush to scrub inside each fan.  After that, I toss everything into the dishwasher.  Just don't wash the motor brushes or bearings. 
Post# 197217 , Reply# 11   8/25/2012 at 01:24 (4,260 days old) by d-jones (Pittsburgh)        

The model 33 that I fixed up for my younger sister had been run without filter cones by some previous owner and the lower bearing got ruined. It seemed fine on low speed, but when switched up to high you could hear the bearing making odd noises and the motor speed would fluctuate. I wasn't sure what was wrong until I got it apart, at which point the dirt packed into the lower bearing made it rather obvious. Unfortunately, you can't get at the lower bearing without removing the fan, so you may end up having no choice in the matter. If you should decide to go for it, here’s a photo of the motor assembly with the fan cover removed so you can see what you’ll be dealing with. The tool you see just to the left has a curved edge that matches the motor housing profile pretty well, and by gently tapping my way around the housing several times I was able to remove the fan cover without damage. The fan is a little on the delicate side, so be careful how you grip it when removing and re-installing the nut that holds it in place. Once you get that nut off you'll be able to remove the armature from the motor housing.

Post# 197218 , Reply# 12   8/25/2012 at 02:11 (4,260 days old) by d-jones (Pittsburgh)        

Though my sisters vacuum had been used without a filter cone installed, it wasn't used to pick up water, so it was just dust blowing through everything. Add a little water to the mix and now you've got mud, which could explain the chunks you're seeing. When the cover's in place and the motor's running, air enters the fan through the hole in the center. Then it's slung outward by the rotating fan, spills over the edge of the fixed round plate you see, at which point the stator vanes direct it back towards the center where it travels up past the motor and out. Any mud accumulated on or around the stator vanes will be a real problem to remove without disassembly, but there's something else to consider. If the machine was used to pick up liquids as you suggest, then what is essentially mud would be slung against the inside of the fan cover where it could easily stick, until it built up a thick enough layer to cut off a significant amount of airflow around that fixed round plate you see in the photo. That could explain the greatly reduced suction your seeing.

Post# 197219 , Reply# 13   8/25/2012 at 02:26 (4,260 days old) by d-jones (Pittsburgh)        

Here's what the armature looked like when I got it out. Notice the accumulated dirt on the lower bearing. Yours could easily be worse, but once you take the fan cover off a dual bearing change will be a cinch. The part number for the bearings in this machine was 608rs, and I was able to pick them up at a local vacuum shop for twelve dollars and some change. I hope this helps. Good luck to you in your efforts to save this neglected machine.

Post# 197250 , Reply# 14   8/25/2012 at 06:48 (4,260 days old) by kenkart ()        
One Thing!!!

 If you don't have a bearing puller, better take the armature to a shop and have the bearings changed there!! they can be a handful getting them off, and one slip can ruin an armature!

Post# 197254 , Reply# 15   8/25/2012 at 07:00 (4,260 days old) by Good-Vac ()        
I Have Some Parts, For Filter Queen Vacuums

 I have parts,Accessories,Attachments,Filetrs And other thing For Filter Queen Vacuum Cleaners

CLICK HERE TO GO TO Good-Vac's LINK
Post# 197288 , Reply# 16   8/25/2012 at 09:18 (4,259 days old) by dustin (Jackson, MI)        

dustin's profile picture
I used it this morning, and I noticed two things, neither good. 1. Is there supposed to be a seal between the hose and the vacuum body, the hose was falling off constantly. 2. I have a feeling a bearing change is in order, it was smelling hot by the time I had finished, and sounded nasty on wind down, lots of growly noise and only spun for maybe 3 seconds.

Post# 197291 , Reply# 17   8/25/2012 at 09:30 (4,259 days old) by rugsucker (Elizabethton TN)        
Filter Queen fans

 All above is good advice.I would add to cover front fan with thick rag when turning nut to protect fan and your hand!Also everything goes back in same positions.When the washers are stamped(like a cookie cutter)it has a sharp and smooth edge.The smooth side must touch fan or over time the sharp side could cut a circle out.A good tool to clean inside of fans is floor brush strip,such as Lux,bent to the curve of fan.Good luck.P II is a nice vac.

Post# 197340 , Reply# 18   8/25/2012 at 15:24 (4,259 days old) by d-jones (Pittsburgh)        
Dustin

 There is supposed to be a tubular rubber seal in the connecter at the machine end of the hose. They do go missing now and then, especially on a neglected machine. As for the heat, if dirt, mud, and other debris is reducing airflow, that alone will cause the motor to run hot, as that same airflow is relied upon to cool the motor. But if your bearings are shot as well so that the motor is running at reduced rpm's, that will also cause increased heat, both from the increased bearing friction and the extra effort the motor is making to overcome it, so this poor little motor is getting hit with a double whammy. You probably shouldn't run it again until you've had it apart, cleaned out the dirt, and replaced those bearings. You see the motor windings are made up using varnished copper wire. This varnish coating allows the wires to touch each other without shorting, but if the varnish gets too hot it softens, and you could end up with a short(or several)in the motor. Now, to pile on a little bit more doom and gloom, chunks of dried out mud and dirt flying through the motor as they break loose will act as an abrasive, essentially sand blasting everything they come in contact with, including the varnish on the windings. This could also lead to shorts in the windings. The bottom line is that this motor needs to come apart for maintenance.

By the way, here's a rubber hose seal on eBay for three dollars. You may even find one cheaper if you look around a bit. The photo shows how it's installed, very simple.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO d-jones's LINK on eBay


Post# 197349 , Reply# 19   8/25/2012 at 16:45 (4,259 days old) by dustin (Jackson, MI)        

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Ok there's part of the problem, mine is completely missing the seal.

Post# 197372 , Reply# 20   8/25/2012 at 20:37 (4,259 days old) by vacu-finder ()        
Motor Fans..........

 I have rebuilt, tested and checked countless motors.
First thing i learned was this: when looking into the housing cavity of the fans look for an accumulation of dirt and dust. If it appears normal, (Normal) been a little fine dust around the fan blades. Don't even go there.......
~~~~~~~(Just Leave the FAns Alone)~~~~~~~

Now with the motor exposed run it and block off the hole with something solid like a piece of wood, just for a few seconds. This will not hurt the motor, if it does then something is array. When plugging the hole you should see the housing collapse slightly due to the pressure builup. If the wood sticks to the housing like glue........then you have a good strong motor.
And another thing I never have nor never will soak an armature in water.
But i guess to each his own. Try using some electronic cleaner instead.

Post# 197381 , Reply# 21   8/25/2012 at 21:24 (4,259 days old) by d-jones (Pittsburgh)        
Dean

 Justin's machine is blowing chunks, and according to him the fan is full of a thick build up of what is essentially dried out mud, the motor is running hot, the bearings are making a groaning sound, and it grinds to a halt within three seconds of shut down. From his very first post at the start of this thread he made it clear that there is nothing normal about his fans appearance or performance. This motor/fan assembly needs to be taken apart immediately, properly cleaned and serviced, including a dual bearing change. Have I misunderstood you, or are you really suggesting some electronics cleaner will fix his problem? I'm not trying to be offensive here, I'm just trying to figure out where you're coming from.



Post# 197392 , Reply# 22   8/25/2012 at 21:59 (4,259 days old) by d-jones (Pittsburgh)        
Dean

 Two things I need to add. First I meant to say Dustin, not Justin...DOH! Second, one of the big problems with written communication is you can't hear the tone of voice being used by the writer. The correct tone for my comment above is simply "puzzled," but if you read it with an angry voice my wife says I come across as a complete Richard. That certainly isn't my intention so I hope you didn't use an angry voice when you read it.

Post# 197402 , Reply# 23   8/25/2012 at 22:30 (4,259 days old) by dustin (Jackson, MI)        

dustin's profile picture
Its ok, I have been called worse lol. I don't plan on using it until I can get the bearings replaced, I don't want to damage anything. I don't have the tool to remove the bearings, so I might just take the motor into the vac shop and have them do it.

Post# 197521 , Reply# 24   8/26/2012 at 15:33 (4,258 days old) by vacu-finder ()        
David

 ok so i had a "B" moment............:)

Post# 197526 , Reply# 25   8/26/2012 at 16:27 (4,258 days old) by kenkart ()        
Cleaning motors!

 I run the armature as well as the fields thru a full dishwasher cycle ,just turn off the heated dry, you end up with a unit that is as clean as new..A friend who was a Rainbow service man for many years taught me this trick, he has done it for over 40 years with no problems.

Post# 197542 , Reply# 26   8/26/2012 at 19:51 (4,258 days old) by dustin (Jackson, MI)        

dustin's profile picture
I will probably run the rest of the machine through the dishwasher, but something just doesn't feel right putting an electric motor in there... I blew the accumulated dust out as best I could and it looks clean, so that is fine. The vacuum doesn't smell or anything, just dusty and full of crud.

Post# 197544 , Reply# 27   8/26/2012 at 20:28 (4,258 days old) by kirbykid (Horseheads,New York 14845)        

puting a electric motor through the dish washer is fine. ive done it with computer components before. aslong as you let it dryout before turning it on. this is not me in the youtube video

CLICK HERE TO GO TO kirbykid's LINK
Post# 197545 , Reply# 28   8/26/2012 at 20:29 (4,258 days old) by kirbykid (Horseheads,New York 14845)        

this is not me in the video


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