Thread Number: 17076
Hoover Insight |
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Post# 182809   5/27/2012 at 19:01 (4,322 days old) by motojoejo (MO)   |   | |
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I saw these came out recently and have not seen any feed back on them. Has anyone seen and tried one out? CLICK HERE TO GO TO motojoejo's LINK |
Post# 182812 , Reply# 1   5/27/2012 at 19:49 (4,322 days old) by piano_god (British Columbia, Canada)   |   | |
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The MSRP of these machines is practically identical to the machines that inspired its creation, the Sebo manufactured Windsor Sensor.
I have noticed that some retailers have begun discounting these rather heavily, so I don't know if that's a good sign. However, I am interested to hear a review from someone who has one... |
Post# 182814 , Reply# 2   5/27/2012 at 20:14 (4,322 days old) by Blackheart (North Dakota)   |   | |
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Post# 182829 , Reply# 3   5/28/2012 at 02:04 (4,322 days old) by thevacuumman (Borger, TX)   |   | |
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I got the opportunity to use one of these at school and i think it's much better than the Windsor Versamatics they used to use |
Post# 183420 , Reply# 4   5/31/2012 at 14:04 (4,319 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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They're actually illegal copies of Sebo's upright vacs that are made in China. A previous thread on here was also re-done regarding the Hoover Insight. I contacted SEBO about it and they weren't aware of the Insight and have since, I believe contacted Hoover about this illegal copy.
www.vacuumland.org/cgi-bin/TD/TD-... |
Post# 183426 , Reply# 6   5/31/2012 at 14:19 (4,318 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Post# 183507 , Reply# 9   6/1/2012 at 03:42 (4,318 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)   |   | |
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That was the Hoover Vortex. Yes, it was taken off sale about 1999. I don't think it was a popular seller anyway though. I have often wondered what happened to the cleaners which they were not allowed to sell. |
Post# 183510 , Reply# 10   6/1/2012 at 04:53 (4,318 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Well there's no speculation - it's general fact! SEBO already have had a look at an Insight and they're not happy. Infact as far as I'm aware, there will be court action, probably small enough for Hoover to retract the machine. It's not just the buttons, but the whole body style is like an X1/Sensor update.
Yes, VR, the Hoover company seem to be one of those companies who are forever in dispute with someone else. Miele took Hoover to court over some suction claim a few years back. Hoover also got into trouble with Vax in the early 1990s/1980s with the Vax wash head patent. Hoover claimed the design was their own on the Aquajet tubs and had to promptly change the brochure's wording. Just because customers want something, doesn't give companies the right to market something that isn't their own to market. |
Post# 183512 , Reply# 11   6/1/2012 at 05:08 (4,318 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)   |   | |
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@ vintage repairer , the vacuums they arent' allowed to retail will be shiped to another country and sold there. Patents are not world wide you have to take them out in any country you wish to sell your product in.
As for the insight looking like a sebo, in the same way that all 4x4's look the same and all semi trucks look the same. The insight is a answer to a customers need , customers want the design with those features so they make it so, Karcher , Ivac lindhuas , advance , nilfisk , wap , they all based there upright designs on the origional sebo from the 70's , twin motor , built in hose, then the single motors models came out and every one based there vacuums on that,
If you want to get technical , and Petty then Hoover should sue every manufacturer out there as all uprigh vacuums are based on their original idea of a suction motor and a beater bar with a handle for easy movement |
Post# 183518 , Reply# 12   6/1/2012 at 05:38 (4,318 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Post# 183521 , Reply# 13   6/1/2012 at 05:46 (4,318 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)   |   | |
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Post# 183527 , Reply# 14   6/1/2012 at 06:57 (4,318 days old) by stricklybojack (Southern California)   |   | |
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I have seen them on the web recently far cheaper than MSRP....see link for old thread.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO stricklybojack's LINK |
Post# 183582 , Reply# 15   6/1/2012 at 13:21 (4,318 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)   |   | |
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magical Sebo fan , Yesterday Sebo had not seen the Insight and today theres a law suit on its way and they are pissed . Hmmmm that was quick you must be super powerful , Puleeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ! You don`t think Hoover has lawyers and has checked into everything to make sure they wont get sued ? The Insight looks way better than a Sebo ever did .
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Post# 183588 , Reply# 16   6/1/2012 at 13:46 (4,318 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)   |   | |
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Here is the thing, I have worked in R&D for a few company's There is no way that sebo didn't know about the insight.Industrial espionage is rife amongst company's They know everything about each others designs long before they have been launched. You have to get moulds made for the injection mould machines and Ul tested , everywhere there is the possibility of leaked info. All of the vacuum company's have sample models of the competitions machines.
When I worked for Electrolux SA back in the day they had a whole massive room filled with every model and make of vacuum around the world. |
Post# 183641 , Reply# 18   6/1/2012 at 16:10 (4,317 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Kirbyloverdan - if you look at the previous thread strictlybojack has supplied here, you'll see I contacted SEBO about the Insight on the 27th of February 2012. I have no doubt that the Hoover version looks better than the Sebo version, but then I thought my Dirt Devil "Hoover Turbopower 2" looked better than my own collections of Hoover Turbopower 2/3 models - the difference is, Dirt Devil got permission from Hoover to license the design. Hoover hasn't been given license from SEBO to market the X series as their own.
Let's not get carried away with what looks better - the fact is, the Insight is a copy. |
Post# 183642 , Reply# 19   6/1/2012 at 16:11 (4,317 days old) by ryry_87 (Earth)   |   | |
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well, Sebo seems to do it right, why change something that works. I'd be reluctant to buy something that looks like a sebo. I'd rather have the real thing |
Post# 183643 , Reply# 20   6/1/2012 at 16:16 (4,317 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Post# 183652 , Reply# 23   6/1/2012 at 16:44 (4,317 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Sensotronic - thanks for the link! I like the Go-Vacuums site but already in the first couple of seconds, the guy demonstrating says that Hoover are working "around" patents that have expired - and improving on design issues from the Windsor/Sebo G2. One of them being a replaceable cord and that the cord on a Windsor would have to be replaced by buying an entire handle and cord. Well, that's not quite true based on the fact that there are videos showing how to stitch/thread in a new power cord into the existing handle of a Sebo X1. Evidently the U.S aren't privy to that little design feature of the original model...
Next up, the Insight sounds like a Windsor/X/G2 but seems to be a lot noisier, also helped by the noise level that the guy tests in the video at 80 or so dbl. 80 dbl is really noisy compared to Sebo's original 67 to 71dbl.
I do like the top electronic "dash" located at the top of the vacuum though but it only brings a "new" indicator to change the filter, which frankly I feel is rather pointless. The Germans have made it simpler - when you check the whole system of air flow through the vacuum and there's a new bag, it's the filters that need to be changed - no LED needed there - if suction is low.
The Chevron roller is a direct copy and Hoover have even gone to the bother of putting the same metal strip at the front of the floor head whilst the brush height manual control dial is also copied from the G2. The bottom hose removal at the base plate is also far more time consuming - the original SEBO's trapdoor is easier to spot blockages and pull them out rather than fit a removable hose that could get lost over time.
The grab handle has been taken off the older SEBO uprights though and would be in no way better to handle or pull out for use than the current wand with a proper handle.
My goodness me, when all things are considered Hoover have really done themselves proud with a machine that "took 5 years to make." 5 years? Blimey does it take that long to copy a design that has been out since the late 1970's?
GUARDSMAN - I don't work for SEBO but I'm a collector of their machines. I'm sure you'd have the same reaction if another brand came out with a Hoover Convertible and tried to slate the original. How would you feel then? Not so cock-sure then I'd hasten to add!
As for making up stories - um, not quite. Just because you've sat in with your VP and whatever doesn't make this copied vacuum the best OR original. As Ry-Ry states, the 30 years of experience Sebo have put into their X series machines is worldwide - Hoover's Insight is still relatively new and it hardly brings anything new to an existing owner of a SEBO G2/X inspired models or Windsor uprights.
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Post# 183656 , Reply# 24   6/1/2012 at 16:51 (4,317 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Post# 183657 , Reply# 25   6/1/2012 at 16:54 (4,317 days old) by ryry_87 (Earth)   |   | |
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No? Didn't know they existed lol |
Post# 183658 , Reply# 26   6/1/2012 at 16:59 (4,317 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Post# 183663 , Reply# 28   6/1/2012 at 17:14 (4,317 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Please don't try and pass off your sales technique to me. If the Insight is still available in 30 years time, then maybe it will be worth checking out. Frankly, I don't think it will last that long, but then that's my opinion.
And as for your Hoover company - HOOVER U.S let HOOVER UK go when they couldn't pay off the air miles campaign and the Hoover U.S company weren't alone in making competitions of their products, themselves. Don't start trying to say Hoover were perfect = they were anything but and thanks to the U.S company, the U.K company isn't half of what they used to be when they had the home company behind them.
Hats off to Hoover for introducing the commercial vacuum cleaner - whatever- it still doesn't justify copying another brand directly with a machine that looks like a SEBO, even worse that Hoover should go and paint it black so that it looks like the Ensign Stealth, another commercial variant upright that SEBO builds. |
Post# 183670 , Reply# 30   6/1/2012 at 17:49 (4,317 days old) by GUARDSMAN69 ()   |   | |
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PS SEBO BOY MAYTAG SOLD THE EUROPEAN DIVISION OF HOOVER TO CANDY FOR HOOVER WAS A DIVISION OF MAYTAG BY THEN.....ONCE AGAIN YOU ARE.......... |
Post# 183672 , Reply# 31   6/1/2012 at 17:58 (4,317 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)   |   | |
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I can see the similarity's in the two units but face FACTS there are only so many ways o design a product. If customers needs dictate it then it is more than acceptable that the machines will end up looking similar. Look at cell phones , they all look prety much the same these days because the user dictates it.
Look atthese two machines side by side and they actually have less in comon with there styling than you may think, the hoover even looks bigger , the hose is similar but then show me a twin motor upright that doesn't have its hose coming out the top of the bag housing.
Has anyone got both these units. |
Post# 183673 , Reply# 32   6/1/2012 at 18:00 (4,317 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Well if you don't need a history lesson, cease making statements that aren't thought out before you put them here. Yes you are in the U.S, and I'm in the U.K where we have a democracy too. Yet, you seem to think Hoover have a unique concept here and I'm sorry, when you look at the FACTS not the facts that you learnt when the Insight was being made, designed, and then launched, it isn't a unique product and it isn't a unique design. Also....
Clearly then you're a dealer, you're used to selling and you'll find every excuse in the book to iron over with a fleeting statement that may be based on existing facts to suit your own belief. I'm an owner, I don't need convincing and I don't need to convince anyone. Crawl into your own SEBO COPIED dust bag and eat humble pie.
Giving advice to collectors is one aspect of this forum I appreciate and sharing ideas and info is another - you seem to forget this- slating other members on here because of their experience and knowledge is perhaps not the best way to go when the facts and evidence prove you wrong - and ultimately make you look a bit false - a bit like the Insight vacuum itself - isn't it also made in China, a country that seems to be unfairly treated with prejudice by Americans because they want home-grown products?
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Post# 183684 , Reply# 34   6/1/2012 at 18:18 (4,317 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Sweetheart?? I'm not trashing America -I'm just reacting to your statements. Infact if you read several of my older posts you'll find I'm a fan of most American products and things. Of course you probably haven't bothered to check - Assumption is the mother of muck ups - and really, there isn't a need to be so abrasive - unless of course you are losing your battle to get your opinion across. As for your Hoover history, have you ever heard of Goblin? Check them on Wikipedia, you might be surprised.
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Post# 183692 , Reply# 36   6/1/2012 at 18:51 (4,317 days old) by GUARDSMAN69 ()   |   | |
This post has been removed by the webmaster. |
Post# 183776 , Reply# 37   6/2/2012 at 07:10 (4,317 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Post# 183778 , Reply# 38   6/2/2012 at 07:20 (4,317 days old) by turbomaster1984 (Ripley, Derbyshire)   |   | |
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Post# 183782 , Reply# 39   6/2/2012 at 07:37 (4,317 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Post# 183784 , Reply# 40   6/2/2012 at 08:06 (4,317 days old) by turbomaster1984 (Ripley, Derbyshire)   |   | |
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Post# 183790 , Reply# 42   6/2/2012 at 08:44 (4,317 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)   |   | |
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Post# 183793 , Reply# 43   6/2/2012 at 08:53 (4,317 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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You could just buy the Windsor HEPA filter from the U.S - SEBO have tested the HEPA cartridge and apparently weren't happy with it - I would try it though it if I could, so thanks for that link sensotronic. I have just emailed you, TF.
The bags shown on that Amazon.de site show a paper bag - or white paper bag that I got when I bought my new X4 last year.This is a synthetic one similar to electret Felix bags:
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Post# 183794 , Reply# 44   6/2/2012 at 09:00 (4,317 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Post# 183797 , Reply# 46   6/2/2012 at 09:25 (4,317 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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mm that is strange. The bags in my D2 are usually quite full before needing to be changed. I guess it depends on the kind of dust you're lifting up, plus counteracting the big seal/dust hole at the top.
I tend to use the charcoal filter in my X models but have also used the micro filter on occasion. |
Post# 183934 , Reply# 48   6/2/2012 at 15:24 (4,316 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Contact SEBO about the nozzle falling off the back. It happened to me also - they sent out a slightly redesigned nozzle free of charge. I didn't like the all stainless steel tubing either and though lighter than the ones Miele sell for their canister vacs, I bought a replacement K series tube for use instead - that way I can slide on a clamp and put the "small cleaning tool" of choice on, or use Sebo's larger triangular dusting brush if the default one supplied isn't sufficient to needs - plus the plastic/metal tubes are far lighter and easier to handle. |
Post# 184573 , Reply# 49   6/6/2012 at 17:52 (4,312 days old) by piano_god (British Columbia, Canada)   |   | |
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Three more models of the Insight are to be released soon that will feature brushless motors (what Hoover calls "MagnaTorque"). Two of those will have a LCD screen that will assist in routine maintenance of the machine, or assist in the diagnosis of the vacuum should it require repair.
To my knowledge, these will be the first uprights to use brushless motors. Because of that, I think I'll have to add one of these to my collection! |
Post# 184664 , Reply# 50   6/7/2012 at 09:19 (4,312 days old) by ryry_87 (Earth)   |   | |
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apparently synthetic bags are available here ;) …. CLICK HERE TO GO TO ryry_87's LINK on eBay |
Post# 184716 , Reply# 52   6/7/2012 at 19:22 (4,311 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Post# 184784 , Reply# 54   6/8/2012 at 14:29 (4,310 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Post# 184863 , Reply# 57   6/9/2012 at 05:35 (4,310 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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There's actually a way in which the nozzle should lock into the recess at the back of the machine. It will click into place when using the neck to fit the corresponding curve.
Check the "Star Trek" (as I call it as it looks like a large conduit door) back filter on the rear of the machine and the front filter under the bin lid. My D2 used to howl a lot until I realised the filters had not been locked onto the fixings properly. This then creates an obvious seal escape bit in the filter design as it locks to the machine when you turn it or when the bin lid is closed over - sometimes not locking at all because the filter hasn't been locked into its paths properly. |
Post# 184883 , Reply# 58   6/9/2012 at 10:27 (4,310 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)   |   | |
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Vintage repairer , its cheaper to add a converter.
IN SA we have 2 pin and 3 pin plugs. most company's now produce things with the 2 pin plug.
If they have to manufacure a appliance with a 3 pin plug it means a seperate production run just for that country and that means its a break in normal production. That means a rise in production costs. 2 pin plugs have a wider market. |
Post# 184912 , Reply# 61   6/9/2012 at 15:57 (4,309 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)   |   | |
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Vintage repairer YOU have a point , here is why You will find they are changed at the depot in the UK, we do the same here with kettles and toasters that come with the UK 3 pin plug, we just cut it off and change it here or fit a SA moulded plug and cord , its cheaper to do it here than it is to set up a separate production line in the factory
Kettles & toaster have to be earthed but tv's dvd players and hifi's dont.
When I was still working for Electrolux having the machines fitted at the factory with a 3 prong moulded plug would raise the cost per unit by £ 1 - £ 5 pounds especially if it was cylinder vacuum as the cord winder would need to be beefed up to handle the extra weight. Now this may not sound like allot but when you are importing 1.5 million units a year that is £1.5 million more capital laid out just to have a 3 prong plug. |
Post# 184915 , Reply# 62   6/9/2012 at 16:14 (4,309 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)   |   | |
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Hello again. Thank you for your reply. Would it not be cheaper to attach a converter plug in the UK than go to the bother of cutting off a 2-pin plug, stripping and capping the wires, and fitting the plug? |
Post# 184916 , Reply# 63   6/9/2012 at 16:25 (4,309 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)   |   | |
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Post# 184982 , Reply# 64   6/10/2012 at 05:44 (4,309 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Um, what about safety tests on those converter plugs? I can see why the cord was cut to make it safer if the company couldn't afford to carry out tests with the plugs.
As for pianos, well it's not just that instrument that copying exists in - sadly it's the way of the world - one manufacturer will come out with something and the next rival brand will do the same, even going as far as copying the look to confuse the buyer. Thanks largely to the internet though, and if you are prepared to spend the time to research the models/products, if you want an original article you have to put a bit extra work in.
As a wind player and pianist, I've seen lots of copies over the years and I don't mind what an instrument looks like generally - it's like a bottle of wine, they're all the same until you try it and if the quality, body, taste and feel is different, then you go with what makes you smile.
Sadly I'm not a fan of Steinway pianos. I think largely they're overhyped for what they represent and like "Scotch Tape," everyone knows them by brand. If I was to go down the luxury route, it would be Bosendorfer for me every time - the grand daddy of them all where ostentatiousness is concerned, but still well made and still has a excellent feel when played.
Other brands I like are Baldwin pianos - I've played a couple of those and the styles are simple but the performance is pretty good, replacing the English piano brand Kemble who used to be very good but no longer make pianos anymore.
My "daily" driver is an old English Bentley piano which I teach on, the grand piano in my living room however is a Japanese Kawai which is just perfect for what I need it to do and I have a couple of Yamaha home keyboards. I did shop around a lot when it came to trying out pianos, and whilst Yamaha make great wind instruments and keyboards, some of their pianos weren't as good at the time as my Kawai. |
Post# 185211 , Reply# 67   6/11/2012 at 18:51 (4,307 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Post# 185603 , Reply# 68   6/15/2012 at 11:56 (4,304 days old) by ryry_87 (Earth)   |   | |
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Ryan - the bag turned up today so cheers for that its going in my Stealth 1 since I use that the most Roger - can you start another thread about your G1 or add it to my commercial vacs / vintage sebo ones, would love to see it! |
Post# 185701 , Reply# 69   6/15/2012 at 20:12 (4,303 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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Pleased you got the bag. I bought the other ones you supplied the link to but they're not the same - these copy ones have a shinier, thinner cartridge at the top, mimicking the kinds of plastic ones you get on copy paper bags for the X. No caps came with them either and they look like they could pull away from the cartridge once the bag gets progressively heavier. Once my Xs start to fill up and require changing, I'll let you know about the performance of those copy synthetics. |
Post# 185803 , Reply# 71   6/16/2012 at 05:38 (4,303 days old) by ryry_87 (Earth)   |   | |
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your mum and partner are amazing lol couldn't see my mum or partner willing to contribute to my collection any time soon lol |
Post# 186444 , Reply# 72   6/20/2012 at 10:39 (4,299 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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