Thread Number: 16939
Curb-picked Eureka Upright 		[Down to Last]

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Post# 181019   5/14/2012 at 16:54 (4,358 days old) by CW ()        

Found this sitting in a pile of trash on the curb this afternoon. The sticker on the bottom claims it's a model J 424 e. The motor runs, the light works, but it's in desperate need of a good cleaning, and the outer vinyl bag zipper is missing several teeth toward the bottom, so that will need replacing. Surprisingly, the underside of the machine is pretty clean, it's just the top that's covered in filth. The brushroll is wooden with two red plastic beater bars and two brushes. My plan is to clean the thing up and give it to my parents.

Any ideas on where I could find a suitable replacement bag? Also, what size belt does this take? It looks like it's a bit longer than the belt my Hoover Convertible takes.

Post# 181023 , Reply# 1   5/14/2012 at 17:01 (4,358 days old) by twocvbloke ()        

You can get replacement bag assemblies pretty much anywhere, given that it looks pretty much like a Sanitaire, you could get away with using a red Sanitaire ST bag like this one:

CLICK HERE TO GO TO twocvbloke's LINK on eBay


Post# 181024 , Reply# 2   5/14/2012 at 17:02 (4,358 days old) by twocvbloke ()        

Oh, and the belts are "Type RD", if a Hoover belt won't fit on there (E.G.too tight to reach the pulley), then use the RD belts... :)

Post# 181025 , Reply# 3   5/14/2012 at 17:03 (4,358 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

jmurray01's profile picture
What a beauty... If your parents don't want it, I'll have it! :)

Post# 181026 , Reply# 4   5/14/2012 at 17:04 (4,358 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

jmurray01's profile picture
But didn't you say that belts from the Senior/Convertible would work David ? Or was that another Vacuum Cleaner...

Post# 181029 , Reply# 5   5/14/2012 at 17:08 (4,358 days old) by twocvbloke ()        

Yeah, on some older Eurekas, the Hoover Senior/Convertible belts are too tight, and must use RD belts, but for some reason, later models the RD belts are much slacker, and that's where the Hoover belts come into play.... :)

Post# 181032 , Reply# 6   5/14/2012 at 17:12 (4,358 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

jmurray01's profile picture
It's all too confusing for me, so I'm off to bed. Goodnight vacuumers!

Post# 181048 , Reply# 7   5/14/2012 at 19:51 (4,358 days old) by 1926700 ()        
OK!!!!!

 IF IVE SAID THIS ONCE IVE SAID IT A THOUSAND TIMES!!!!!! DO NOT USE A CONVERTIBLE BELT!!!!! IT WILL PUT TO MUCH STRAIN ON THE MOTOR!!!! ANY AND ALL EUREKAS USE A EUREKA RD BELT!!!! PERIOD!!!!......

Post# 181049 , Reply# 8   5/14/2012 at 19:54 (4,358 days old) by eluxomarty (Palm Springs)        
CW

 Cool Find! I love those dial-a-nap uprights.

The belt type is "RD" and the bag type will be F&G.

By looking at the picture I see a round metal stretch bag retainer ring that hold the bag to the plastic chute inside the vinyl bag. It's hanging on the handle near the top cord hook.

Vinyl outer bags can be bought at vacuum stores or on line, also try ebay.

It's a great vacuum, congratulations.



Post# 181050 , Reply# 9   5/14/2012 at 20:01 (4,358 days old) by eluxomarty (Palm Springs)        
Okay Cher!

Put down that pump girl before you put someone's eye out!!

LOL! Seriously Jason, I myself never use convertible belts in Eureka uprights, but what are your thoughts about using RD belts on the older coffee can hoover uprights? I do because the belt shaft is farther back from teh brush roll on the old coffee cans than the convertibles.

Post# 181051 , Reply# 10   5/14/2012 at 20:02 (4,358 days old) by 1926700 ()        
also....on a lighter note CW>.....

 thats is a late 70's model.....why dont u keep it as collection???....that particular model is not that common....(and just to clear up CW, that was not meant for you on the belt).....=)

Post# 181055 , Reply# 11   5/14/2012 at 20:23 (4,358 days old) by CW ()        

I don't know much about Eurekas, my thought was that my parents need a decent vacuum cleaner as they've gone through about 3 or 4 plastic walmart wonders in the past few years. Maybe after I've fixed this one up I'll decide to give them my Hoover U4053 instead (1 speed Convertible, orange hood, no headlight, old vinyl bag replaced with an orange bag from some Hoover Commercial upright, converted to use type A bags). I guessed the model wasn't very common since a Google search brought up absolutely nothing, not even some website claiming to sell bags and belts.

Thanks for the tip on the belts, I will order some Eureka RD belts and F&G bags. As for the bag, if I could find a decent condition one like the one that's on it now I suppose I'd do that to keep it original looking, otherwise I'll probably go for a cloth bag, maybe a red one since that should roughly match the base.

Post# 181056 , Reply# 12   5/14/2012 at 20:32 (4,358 days old) by 1926700 ()        
or might i also suggest.....

 i am able to sew new zippers in original bags......if you might want to send the bag to me , id gladley do that for you...

Post# 181058 , Reply# 13   5/14/2012 at 20:40 (4,358 days old) by CW ()        
Thanks

 I'll consider that. I want to clean the bag up and make sure it's in decent shape first though. I'd imagine you don't really want to come home one afternoon to find a dirty vacuum cleaner bag in the mail anyhow ;-)

Post# 181061 , Reply# 14   5/14/2012 at 21:42 (4,358 days old) by Brandon_W_T ()        

That is almost one of my childhood vacuums! My grandpa had one in his basement. He never used it. It wasn't until recently that I got to turn it on, and the motor was stuck. It was in bad shape by then.


The machine always scared me. It was missing the lens, so all I saw was the black hole. IT was a slightly older model with the more rounded front and lens, with the orange plastic bars on the cover. The hood was vented. Not sure on yours, can't tell.

The bag was a little different.

Post# 181068 , Reply# 15   5/15/2012 at 00:38 (4,358 days old) by 1926700 ()        
Well marty for ......

 that porpuos i dont think thats a complete crime. i was once told from another collector that a streched convertible from a machine, that is used and worn is qite suffecint. i find the Eureka belts, even on a pre Covertible Hoover to be a bit loose. just my opnion. im kinda particualr about things like belts

Post# 181086 , Reply# 16   5/15/2012 at 06:46 (4,358 days old) by twocvbloke ()        

Hoover belts DO work on later Sanitaires and Eurekas despite some rather illogical claims on this forum, they're best used on the Pancake type motor rather than the Blender type motor...

Anyone who claims otherwise is either a fool or ill-informed...

After all, I have three Sanitaires, all using those Hoover belts, and not one has been damaged, the belts, once they do a couple of revolutions round the pulleys and warm up, are sufficiently stretched out (one of the wonderful properties or the rubber used, stretching to fit with the application of heat and tension), but remain tight unlike the RD belts which start to slip after a few uses which cause the pulleys to overheat and the brushroll to be ineffective...

Believe me, I have used both types of belt, and the Hoover belt works a lot better, but like I say, they're best used on Pancake motors...

Post# 181115 , Reply# 17   5/15/2012 at 09:29 (4,357 days old) by eluxomarty (Palm Springs)        
Not a fool.....But,

 Just so that I'm informed, what is the difference between a blender motor and a pancake motor? I've heard these references before but just wasn't sure which model machines these applied to.

When using these references, are you talking about Eureka uprights only or both Eurekas and Convertibles.

Marty

Post# 181120 , Reply# 18   5/15/2012 at 09:44 (4,357 days old) by twocvbloke ()        

The blender motors are usually the smaller, lower amperage motors, usually encased in a "tin can" setup, they generally go into the plastic-hooded models (with the vents in the top, rather than the side), they're not as strong as the pancake motors, so they wouldn't take too kindly to the Hoover belts, ruining the bearings pretty quickly...

The Pancake motors, those are the flatter, wider motors, and produce a unique whine sound and generally go into metal-hooded models (with the vents in the sides), these are the ones that usually need the Hoover belts as they're pretty torquey motors, so they can make the RD belts wear out faster as they don't stall as easily as the Blenders, so they require tighter belts to keep the brushroll spinning... :)

As for the belts slipping references, I mean Pancake powered Eurekas & Sanitaires, if the RD belts slip in those, then they're never going to work in a Senior or Convertible (and I did try when I had my 652, and yeah, RD belts do not work in Hoovers!!!)... :)

Post# 181131 , Reply# 19   5/15/2012 at 10:30 (4,357 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

jmurray01's profile picture
Thanks for explaining that David, I never did know what you meant by Pancake and Blender motors, but I do now!

It is strange that Eureka would make a belt that is obviously ill suited to the Vacuum Cleaner!

Post# 181136 , Reply# 20   5/15/2012 at 10:38 (4,357 days old) by twocvbloke ()        
"It is strange that Eureka would make a belt that is obv

 That's the thing, the belt is right for much older models, and fits tightly, but for later models, they must have changed something that loosened the fit, my guess is the groove in the brushroll on VGI and VGII brushrolls is a smaller diameter than the older wooden Distribulator brushrolls, but not having had an older model than my C12 to experiment with, I don't really know... :\

Post# 181141 , Reply# 21   5/15/2012 at 10:45 (4,357 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

jmurray01's profile picture
And the groove being smaller would pinch the belt more and wear it quicker, right ?

Sorry if I'm appearing thick, it comes naturally to me!

Post# 181146 , Reply# 22   5/15/2012 at 10:53 (4,357 days old) by twocvbloke ()        

No, the smaller diameter would mean the belt is not as tight as it should be, so the pulley on the motor would slip more and cause the belt to overheat and lose more tension, ultimately resulting in the belt failing... :)

This is more prevalent on the Pancakes as like I say, they have a bit more torque behind them, so they don't stall as easily as the Blenders, so while a blender motor can stall if you lower it too far or if it catches the edge of a rug, the Pancake will keep on going until the belt gives out... :)

It is odd that they do that, but, there you go... :\

Post# 181148 , Reply# 23   5/15/2012 at 10:56 (4,357 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

jmurray01's profile picture
Ah, I get you now.

That's the thing I hate about modern Vacuum Cleaners opposed to the "oldies", if you run over something, like a cable or a sock and it jams the brush roll, the belt will snap in an instant because the motor doesn't slow down at all, at least an older motor slows down to give you the split second you need to cut the power.

Post# 181152 , Reply# 24   5/15/2012 at 11:08 (4,357 days old) by twocvbloke ()        

The pancake motor design is actually old, but they just kept upping the amps over they years, so the highest amp models (the 7 Amp@120v) tend to go through belts like I go through cola, but the lowest (I think 3.5Amp@120v) tend to last longer... :)

There is the issue of them using round belts though, if they used flat belts they'd probably last a lot longer, but still, it's a well-tested design that has lasted well... :)

Post# 181157 , Reply# 25   5/15/2012 at 11:15 (4,357 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

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Yep, that's always the way.

You up the amps (or wattage as us Brits would term it) and the motor is going to spin faster. The motor spins faster - The rubber belt rotating the brush roll will wear quicker due to heating more and thus stretching more. Unless of course, it was made using threads like the other belt you mentioned.

Post# 181161 , Reply# 26   5/15/2012 at 11:23 (4,357 days old) by twocvbloke ()        

The reason for modern vacuums having higher wattage motors is because they're usually single-stage motors, so to get more air through, they have to spin faster, but two-stage motors, like in my Tristar, can be lower powered and draw more air through, but it's more expensive to design to fit in most modern vacs, so they compromise and use the cheaper motors at the expense of the user's electricity bill... :\

Post# 181172 , Reply# 27   5/15/2012 at 11:54 (4,357 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

jmurray01's profile picture
I thought two-stage motors were motors with two wattage settings, but I take it that isn't correct.

What exactly is it then ?

Post# 181178 , Reply# 28   5/15/2012 at 12:05 (4,357 days old) by twocvbloke ()        

Nah, what you're thinking of is a 2-speed, which needs no explanation... :)

A two-stage is basically a motor with two fans, one up front, that feeds through a set of vanes to the next fan that then goes through another set of vanes then finally out through the motor's back end, this helps to create more suction and airflow with less power used... :)

You can see the motor design in the first episode of "The secret life of machines" here:

CLICK HERE TO GO TO twocvbloke's LINK
Post# 181181 , Reply# 29   5/15/2012 at 12:09 (4,357 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

jmurray01's profile picture
I see! Is this on dirty fans and clean fans, or just clean fans ?

Post# 181186 , Reply# 30   5/15/2012 at 12:18 (4,357 days old) by twocvbloke ()        

Just clean fans, I think if they tried doing it with dust, dirt and fluff going through, it would clog up too easily... :)

Post# 181192 , Reply# 31   5/15/2012 at 12:42 (4,357 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)        

jmurray01's profile picture
You're probably right.

Post# 181211 , Reply# 32   5/15/2012 at 14:36 (4,357 days old) by 1926700 ()        
not even on a

Pancake motor machine!!!......its still a bit of a strain!!!!.....you may have used sanitares. BUT, do u know how many F&G eurekas have come in and out of my hands in the last 5 years????>....trust me....eureka belts for eurekas, hoover belts for Hoovers.

and the difference in blender motors and pancake motors are......blender motors have a adjustable sleeve berring in the top of the motor. and a pancake is a double ball bering motor. in the 60's and 70's most Eurekas use the pancake motor, but they were only 3.5amps....the blender motor didnt come out till the late 70's, then the pancake motor was finally beefed to 6.0amps with the introduction of the ESP. so pancake motors are not just higher ampage.....they are just a better quality motors.

Post# 181222 , Reply# 33   5/15/2012 at 15:54 (4,357 days old) by raycarter (Taylor, Michigan)        

That cleaner will look great once it's all cleaned up! Is the trim on.that model "big bad Orange" or some shade of red? The accumulated dirt makes it difficult to tell in a photograph.

Post# 181223 , Reply# 34   5/15/2012 at 16:02 (4,357 days old) by CW ()        
Color

 It's definitely red. So far the cleaning's been going fairly well, the big mark on the corner of the hood that looks like the paint has been scraped away and the metal is rusting was actually just some kind of gunk that came off with isopropanol and a lot of rubbing. The hood definitely has some little chips and scratches but nothing too major. The bag has almost no cracks in the vinyl (looks like better material than the stuff Hoover used) but it has some kind of nasty orange stains on it - if those will come off I may try to replace the zipper on it (or ask the person here who offered to do it), but if not I'll probably put a new bag on.

I just need to clean/oil the motor and do the handle/cord and I'll be ready to start reassembling it.

Post# 181241 , Reply# 35   5/15/2012 at 18:00 (4,357 days old) by 1926700 ()        
just let me know.....

 about the bag......or i even have a spare low end bag, id be willing to trade you for that orginal Eureka bag.

Post# 181254 , Reply# 36   5/15/2012 at 19:42 (4,357 days old) by KirbyClassicIII (Milwaukie, Oregon)        

kirbyclassiciii's profile picture
And the model's 1424E. I wonder if there ever was a model 1424J, though?

~Ben


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