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Thread Number: 16498
Recreating/repairing vintage sateen bags |
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| Post# 176084 , Reply# 1 4/6/2012 at 10:45 (4,401 days old) by truckerx (Palm Springs, CA) | ||
sateen bags
I'm excited for you! I've been looking for older Hoover bags forever, but it seems the demand has exceeded the supply. I think I may have seen your Hoover posting on Ebay or one similar to it. Often Ebay photos are cleverly taken at such an angle that it is impossible to determine the overall condition of a bag. In that case, I might request additional photos from the seller.
I have been toying with the idea of attempting to reproduce older Hoover bags like yours for years. Firstly, one would need a bag to use as a pattern. Secondly, the nearly exact material would have to be found. I believe that Hoover boasted that their sateen bags were chemically treated. Thirdly, the Hoover logo would have to be copied then silk-screened on to the bag. The good news is that you now have an accurate pattern to go by. I don't think there would be any profit in reproducing a limited number of bags for sale. The trouble and expense would most likely exceed what you could sell them for. It's an interesting idea however. You'd need to disassemble the old bag's stitching then lay out the individual pieces for your pattern. I believe it could certainly be done. I'd be delighted to see the finished product. I have seen some attempts at reproducing these bags, but the reproductions were poorly done, over-sized and not in the least becoming to the machines. Good luck and please keep me posted. | ||
| Post# 176090 , Reply# 3 4/6/2012 at 11:45 (4,401 days old) by danemodsandy () | ||
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Silk-Screening: Custom T-shirts are often done by silk-screening, so if there's a custom T-shirt company in your area, you should be good to go. | ||
| Post# 176096 , Reply# 4 4/6/2012 at 12:52 (4,401 days old) by truckerx (Palm Springs, CA) | ||
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THAT'S WONDERFUL! I THINK YOU'D NEED TO HAVE THE IMAGE COPIED FULL-SIZE FIRST, MAYBE THROUGH SOME PHOTOGRAPHIC PROCESS. A TEE SHIRT SHOP MIGHT BE THE PERFECT PLACE TO INQUIRE. ALL OF THE ORIGINAL SATEEN BAGS I HAVE SEEN WERE AN OFF-WHITE AND TANISH. WONDERING IF THEY WERE THAT COLOR WHEN NEW OR FROM AGE AND DIRT. I HAVE AN EARLY BLACK&WHITE HOOVER PARTS CATALOG, AMONG OTHER EPHEMERA, THAT SHOWS THE BAGS. I CAN SEND IT TO YOU, IF YOU'D BE INTERESTED. THIS SHOULD BE AN INTERESTING THREAD.
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| Post# 176141 , Reply# 7 4/6/2012 at 17:37 (4,401 days old) by truckerx (Palm Springs, CA) | ||
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| Post# 176252 , Reply# 9 4/7/2012 at 17:50 (4,400 days old) by truckerx (Palm Springs, CA) | ||
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| Post# 176380 , Reply# 10 4/8/2012 at 17:59 (4,399 days old) by anthony (leeds uk) | ||
homemade bag | ||
| Post# 176469 , Reply# 12 4/9/2012 at 10:40 (4,398 days old) by jimbeckwith () | ||
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Recreating/repairing sateen bags Trebor- Thanks for that bit of information. Any ideas what Hoover (or anyone else) used to "chemically treat" their bags to make them "dustproof"? | ||
| Post# 176509 , Reply# 14 4/9/2012 at 16:56 (4,398 days old) by truckerx (Palm Springs, CA) | ||
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| Post# 176645 , Reply# 15 4/10/2012 at 15:06 (4,397 days old) by anthony (leeds uk) | ||
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homemade bag
Hi again the 612 bag is made from heavy duty calico that i bought at the local market i then dyed it brown in the washingmachine it was then hung out to dry naturally i then ironed it . The bag on the machine was one of those grey replacement things with vacuum cleaner printed on it i unpicked it ironed it flat and used it as a template then it was out with the Singer which incidentaly is around the same age as the vacuum cleaner . the top opening of the bag has strips of an old tupperware container fitted to make it fold in the correct places what you cant see is on the intake end of the bag inside i made a cloth tube i then attached it to the intake opening when the machine is running the tube inflates allowing dirt to enter the bag when switched off the tube collapses stopping the dirt from falling back into the fan chamber the folds are stitched into place making sure the bag always collapses back into its correct shape. The bag isnt correct because at the time i hadnt seen an origional but it will do for now the lettering was simply cut out of a strip of sticky back plastic i then cut out very carefully each letter stuck it on and then used gold spray paint about 5 coats and that was it i wish i had taken more photos regards Tony
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| Post# 176646 , Reply# 16 4/10/2012 at 15:10 (4,397 days old) by anthony (leeds uk) | ||
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homemade bag | ||
| Post# 176647 , Reply# 17 4/10/2012 at 15:15 (4,397 days old) by anthony (leeds uk) | ||
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homemade bag | ||
| Post# 176650 , Reply# 18 4/10/2012 at 15:33 (4,397 days old) by anthony (leeds uk) | ||
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homemade bag
this machine is getting on a bit now and the paper bags are getting hard to find so i made this one as well it works extremely well the machine is Goblin scoot it gets lots of use cleaning the familys dirty cars so it soon gets full but now its so easy to empty and every now and again i bung the bag in the washingmachine to freshen it up
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| Post# 176688 , Reply# 19 4/10/2012 at 19:36 (4,397 days old) by Trebor () | ||
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@Anthony.. Over here, calico is a thin cotton fabric used for quilting. | ||
| Post# 176706 , Reply# 20 4/10/2012 at 21:12 (4,396 days old) by aeoliandave (Stratford Ontario Canada) | ||
Jim, the 541 (probably all Hoover bags of a certain time span) bag is a fairly straightforward pattern of 4 pieces seamed together, as you have discovered. Sewn & assembled in stages as the factory Gals did should produce a fair and convincing copy.
I was fortunate while in Minneapolis in November to accompany Fred & Robert when they picked up a fine original condition machine. My excitement was also that I would be able to examine and measure the bag at my leisure. Back at the house we took the filled bag to the workshop and carefully vacuumed it out and cleaned it. I then laid it out flat in various positions, photographing and recording accurate measurements along the way, with the determined idea that I would - WILL - produce a copy in ivory Duvteen of the correct weight. Sketches were drawn with the intent of drafting my own pattern. Working at a Theatre with it's own in-house Costume Department I have access to materials and in fact about 10 years ago made myself a black Duvteen raglan sleeve spring jacket to recreate my favorite jacket I had as a 12 year old. The scraps were salvaged from costumes made for a production of Hamlet. So I know the exact material is still available (although perhaps not from a standard Mall fabric Store). Anyway, Fred magically produced a book full of Hoover Factory Photographs (I think he said he got if from John Lucia many years ago (?) ). I took two quick photos of the pages that show the pattern pieces being cut out with minimum fabric waste and the fabric being examined for flaws (pinholes). Passing this examination I expect the pattern was then placed in a silkscreen frame for the printing. And off to the sewing room we go... Basically a contoured bag tube reinforced at the bottom with two leaf shaped lining inserts, with the bag top an oval disc, all secured and supported by lengths of four-layer 1/2" straps made up from the extra cloth around the pattern pieces. These are 1.25" strips of whatever length along the straight grain, folded upon themselves, then folded again and stitched along both margins for a strong 1/4" belt, inserted in the bag seams before sewing, looped and sized for the location. Sometimes the metal hooks were placed before sewing or added afterward. Taken altogether there is more than enough information to faithfully re-create the bag, supposing one can also silk-screen - or hand letter - the Hoover Logo. Series of photos to follow... 
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| Post# 176707 , Reply# 21 4/10/2012 at 21:13 (4,396 days old) by aeoliandave (Stratford Ontario Canada) | ||
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| Post# 176708 , Reply# 22 4/10/2012 at 21:15 (4,396 days old) by aeoliandave (Stratford Ontario Canada) | ||
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| Post# 176709 , Reply# 23 4/10/2012 at 21:16 (4,396 days old) by aeoliandave (Stratford Ontario Canada) | ||
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| Post# 176710 , Reply# 24 4/10/2012 at 21:19 (4,396 days old) by aeoliandave (Stratford Ontario Canada) | ||
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| Post# 176711 , Reply# 25 4/10/2012 at 21:25 (4,396 days old) by aeoliandave (Stratford Ontario Canada) | ||
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Seaming inside the bag. Nothing fancy, the leaf panels are simply double-stitched as the double weave nature of Duveteen/sateen discourages fraying.
Robert explains the string flexible weave of this material up above. The oval shape of the top 'drum-head' shows as I folded it in half to make the bag body lay flat. It also shows the two support straps where they are captured during the sewing of the top piece. Again, nothing fancy or 'finished' off like couture tailoring. Note: no side dart seams on this one. The reinforcement leaf shapes extend from the front "V" all the way round to the back seam. 
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| Post# 176712 , Reply# 26 4/10/2012 at 21:27 (4,396 days old) by aeoliandave (Stratford Ontario Canada) | ||
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| Post# 176715 , Reply# 27 4/10/2012 at 21:29 (4,396 days old) by aeoliandave (Stratford Ontario Canada) | ||
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| Post# 176735 , Reply# 28 4/10/2012 at 23:14 (4,396 days old) by truckerx (Palm Springs, CA) | ||
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Hoover sateen bags | ||
| Post# 176814 , Reply# 31 4/11/2012 at 21:48 (4,395 days old) by aeoliandave (Stratford Ontario Canada) | ||
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Yes, I refer to the colour as ivory, which is not as yellow as cream.
Interesting that Hoover changed and simplified the bag pattern. Only reason I can come up with is that it saved a few inches of material so they could fit more bags on a given length of cloth? Also sewing up two less darts would have saved milliseconds of factory time. T'was ever thus since the Science of Time Management reared its ugly head. :-) cribbed from Jack C's site: "The sateen bag (1920-25) was chemically-treated with a dust-proof film. Hoover recommended that the bag never be washed, brushed, or even turned inside-out, because this caused damage to the chemical coating. The thin sateen material tended to wear out relatively quickly, and Hoover's Research and Development department was continually engaged in developing bag materials which provided better filtration, and were more durable. Model 541 (1923) replaced Model 105, and featured a number of improvements over the former model, more durable bag: double-lined at the bottom for greater durability. Model 543 (1926-29) was essentially Model 541, but fitted with Hoover's new Agitator. It also featured a bag made of the new, more durable 'Ronac' material, supported at the top by the patented bag spreader device." "Where will you find a new rubber furniture guard similar to the original? " Fortunately (?), it's Fred's Hoover, not mine. But I have had to replace bumper strips on all manner of machines. Key word is 'similar'. On a good day you might have a junker that can donate but visit any Auto Parts store like Pep Boys, Walmart, etc. Perusing the OEM aisles and the FanBoy Custom sections reveals an astounding array of vinyl trim strips that can serve the purpose. The Home Insulation department is a good bet, too. for rubber trims that can be pressed into service. I WILL get around to making up some bags; I have a 425 and a 541 from Jeff Schroff Sr - hygiene903 - that came with modern replacements - that will benefit from something more 'vintage'. Say, here's the 425 & 541 now with handles, tossed on the kitchen floor upon my Grand Tour return. Oh look, a yellow-gold hose that will go great on my Haley's Comet - I knew there was a reason I snatched this orphan hose from Chris'... Btw, you do know about Jack Copp's invaluable HOOVER reference site: CLICK HERE TO GO TO aeoliandave's LINK | ||
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