Thread Number: 15818
Vacuum Motors with Adjustable Wattage |
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Post# 168469   2/5/2012 at 18:57 (4,435 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)   |   | |
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It seems that since the 1970's, European vacuum manufacturers offered 220-volt machines with variable speed motors. In North America, our vac-makers offered suction controls that would open valves to weaken the suction, instead of allowing the user to control the speed of the motor. I can't remember any vintage North American vacuum older than 1980 that offered the user the ability to adjust the speed of the motor (someone correct me if I'm wrong!)
It's only recently that we have begun to see variable wattage 110-volt motors with the arrival of European imports like Miele and Bosch and Electrolux. And of course, the ingenious Panasonic/Kenmore beltless brush-roll motor can be adjusted for speed to allow the user to vacuum on a "gentle" setting. But previous to 1980, it was a rare vac in a North American store that offered a motor with an electronically adjustable speed (for example, the high end Hoover Dimension and high end Eureka Express). I am not an electrical engineer, but could someone perhaps explain (in layman's terms) why was this so much more common in Europe for such a long time? Are European 220-volt electrical grids and services more amenable to variable wattage motors? Does this have to do with the difference in electrical systems between Europe and North America? Are adjustable motors so much cheaper in Europe? Could someone perhaps shed some light on this difference? |
Post# 168478 , Reply# 3   2/5/2012 at 19:25 (4,435 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)   |   | |
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Hans - yes it is true that many of our older North American uprights and canisters offered 2 speeds: high and low. Even my childhood Eureka 260 upright had two speeds.
I guess I should have been more specific. The European vacs offered a real range of speeds - either with a dial or a slider. Even the high end Eureka Express had a European-like slider on the canister to set the motor speed to many more than just two settings. But European canister vac-makers really focussed on offering you different wattages - you see this on so many canisters (settings offered could be 200watts, 400 watts, 800watts etc). We never saw wattage settings on our vacs..... David - it may have to do with the preponderance of canisters in Europe, I guess. While North America is the birthplace of the upright (Hoover), Europe is the birthplace of the canister (Electrolux). Upright makers were more concerned with offering adjustable heights to match different carpets, whereas canister makers could focus on offering varying suction and tools for different jobs. Maybe that's the source of the difference? |
Post# 168511 , Reply# 4   2/6/2012 at 03:07 (4,434 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)   |   | |
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As David said, I doubt it is to do with the electricity supplies.
I presume it is just something people preferred to have here in the UK and something people didn't bother about in the US - A bit like headlights being on a lot of US cleaners but hardly any UK cleaners. I love Vacuum Cleaners with adjustable wattage! It is so much better than having a little valve that hardly does anything. Out of my three Vacuum Cleaners that have variable wattage (2002 Electrolux Tango 1400W Bagged Cylinder, 2004 Panasonic MC-E8011 1800W Twin Cyclonic Bagless Cylinder & 1994 HOOVER Turbopower 1000W Bagged Upright) the Electroluxes system is the best. You can lower it to an amazing low of 250W which I use when I'm using the crevice and upholstery tool as it creates more than enough suction for that and you literally can barely hear the motor! I'm not exaggerating at all. It is just a very quiet hum no louder than a fridge. When I'm using the main floor tool I could either use the Economy setting which is 650W, the specific Carpet setting which is 750W, or the Hard Flooring setting which is the full 1400W. I tend to use the Economy setting on carpets, as it has more than enough suction, and use the full 1400W on the laminate, but the Economy setting would work well too, I just want to make sure my laminate is crumb free. |
Post# 168512 , Reply# 5   2/6/2012 at 03:17 (4,434 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield & London)   |   | |
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Interesting thread.
As I recall the first UK cannisters to have an electronic suction control would have been the more TOL Hoover Freedom models from 1973 onwards. Although manufactured here it seems they were designed in North Canton. Hoover carried this on with TOL Sensotronic and Compact models - but these again would have been American designs and indeed there were equivalent models in the US, which there were not for the Freedoms (not sure about Canada though). I cannot think of any Electrolux cannister which had electronic control until the 350E in the mid 1980s. And none on the vintage Goblins either - the TOL 701 had a rotary dial but that was just a suction relief valve not and electronic control. Al |
Post# 168522 , Reply# 7   2/6/2012 at 05:30 (4,434 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)   |   | |
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Post# 168523 , Reply# 8   2/6/2012 at 06:35 (4,434 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)   |   | |
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Thanks for these posts, my friends over there in Europe.
Indeed, to be more clear: We in North America indeed began seeing canisters with variable wattage control in the 1980's - but VERY few. It was a feature that was only offered on top of the line Hoovers and Eurekas (Hoover Dimension and Eureka Express). Never saw it on a Panasonic or a Kenmore or a Japanese-made Sharp. Of course, Miele began selling 120-volt canisters here by the late 1980's - and they all had the European-style wattage control. Regarding "Soft Start" - I remember using a Rowenta canister in Tel Aviv in 1998 that had that! That was sooooo cool! The vac also had 4 buttons for different wattages, and each button had an LED light to tell you it was activated! I think we may have hit on the answer: In Europe, the maximum wattage available on canisters is so much higher than in North America. In North America, our maximum is 1440watts (120volts x 12 amps). Our safety standards institutes don't seem to allow this to go any higher. But in Europe, you seem to have vacs that are rated as high as 2200watts - correct me if I am wrong. So you needed to install a "soft start" transformer that would slowly ramp up the wattage to maximum. And once you have that installed, you might as well offer the user the ability to set the wattage as well! My new Electrolux UltraSilencer Green indeed has both a variable wattage motor and a nice air valve on the hose handle. I actually like the combination! Set on the lowest wattage, this vac is nearly silent and I can even do some light cleaning if I get home to my apartment (flat) late at night. By closing the valve, I get very strong suction - even at the lowest, quietest wattage setting. I guess I use the valve to decrease or increase the "grab" of the attachment at the cleaning end of things - it allows me to continually adjust the "stickiness" of the floor tool or the upholstery nozzle. Having both adjustments is a very nice combination - you can really modify the action as you clean. Thanks for all these responses, friends! :-) |
Post# 168527 , Reply# 10   2/6/2012 at 08:03 (4,434 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield & London)   |   | |
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I am not the expert that many of our European friends are but I am pretty sure Miele were offering variable power back in the 1970s, and maybe earlier. And again I think some of the german sourced Hotpoints (Bosch) from around the end of the 1970s had variable power too.
"The first Goblin to have it was on those huge cylinders which they made in the very early 1980's" Benny, you have spiked my curiousity now. It came as a great surprise to me when I discovered that Goblin were still flogging their 701 (703 by that time I think) cannister at the end of the 1970s and possibly into the 1980s. I had thought they were long gone by that time until I acquired a Goblin brochure which showed it alongside the 555/666 and Housemaid models. Is this the one you were thinking of? A very squared off machine with all plastic body with two vents of the side of the case. If so, its the one I refer to in my earlier reply but it was just a relief vale not a power control. It had been around since the mid-1960s - I remember well that the first time I saw one was as the star prize on Take Your Pick - the quiz show with Michael Miles. Benny, you are probably one of the few on here who will know what the hell I am talking about :) Al PS Although the clip is labelled 1955 that is when the show started, I would say the clip is much later - probably mid 1960s CLICK HERE TO GO TO vacbear58's LINK |
Post# 168534 , Reply# 11   2/6/2012 at 10:42 (4,434 days old) by hoover719 ()   |   | |
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The older Hoover Convertibles made from 1957 until the early 1970s had two speeds. The wattage at low speed for carpets was 420, while the high speed wattage when the converter is inserted into the rear was 625. |
Post# 168538 , Reply# 12   2/6/2012 at 11:22 (4,434 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)   |   | |
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Post# 168570 , Reply# 16   2/6/2012 at 14:59 (4,434 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)   |   | |
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I'm no electrician, but I read books on things and like to know a bit about what I'm doing, so I've learned some information about electronics so that in the future should I have to do anything that involves electrics, I should manage to do it safely.
If only other people learned a bit about things before saying "ah, it'll be fine!". |
Post# 168575 , Reply# 17   2/6/2012 at 15:18 (4,434 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)   |   | |
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I love irony! |
Post# 168663 , Reply# 19   2/7/2012 at 07:06 (4,433 days old) by kenkart ()   |   | |
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I guess I was a little dense!! LOL, I think the very first truly variable speed machine was the Bison. |
Post# 168677 , Reply# 20   2/7/2012 at 09:48 (4,433 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)   |   | |
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Post# 168687 , Reply# 21   2/7/2012 at 12:48 (4,433 days old) by jmurray01 (Scotland)   |   | |
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Post# 168732 , Reply# 22   2/7/2012 at 20:36 (4,433 days old) by kenkart ()   |   | |
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But im not sure exactly. |
Post# 168808 , Reply# 24   2/8/2012 at 08:16 (4,432 days old) by eurekaprince (Montreal, Canada)   |   | |
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Post# 169083 , Reply# 25   2/10/2012 at 09:40 (4,430 days old) by collector2 (Moose Jaw, Sk)   |   | |
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Post# 169084 , Reply# 26   2/10/2012 at 10:09 (4,430 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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The only reason that some vacuums have a "soft start" is to prolong the motor's life. My old 1990's Electrolux 1600 watt endurotronic canister has a soft start whereas my comparatively similar Hoover Telios 1700 watt canister does not.
I recall my Hoover Senior had that 2 motor speed, but only when the pan tool convertor was pushed in at the back. Much better suction compared to the low power. Variable suction on an upright vacuum isn't really something I'm bothered about - but on a cylinder/canister, worth it's weight in gold, especially if doing curtains, delicate upholstery and fabrics that you don't want ripped to shreds. |
Post# 169355 , Reply# 28   2/12/2012 at 17:36 (4,428 days old) by Brandon_W_T ()   |   | |
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Thanks Doug! Yep. What I do is remove the motor cap and unscrew the screws on top of the motor, and you twist the entire outer assembly to adjust the speed of the motor. |
Post# 169756 , Reply# 29   2/16/2012 at 07:12 (4,424 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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VR - I beg to differ too but I take your point.
However, if it was the case that all vacuums under 2000 watts tripped electric boxes, you can be sure Which would have looked into that by now as well as BSI! That's a danger - and an issue that all brands would become aware of. However, as I take your point about machines not being fitted with a 13 amp plug, the vacuums I have that have the soft start functions do have 13 amps but my Felix and X uprights that don't have a soft start also have 13 amps. Same with Miele 1200w S6. But! Not only that, some brands have a double insulation method built in, so that the power usage does not break out/cause surges. If you have the more traditional fuse box in your home, then it can be a worry for ALL kind of appliances that lack the extra earthed 13 amps. If however like me you have a circuit breaker box in the home, it only takes a flip of a button to restore any outage. I haven't suffered any outage in 15 years - since the circuit box was fitted. |
Post# 169805 , Reply# 31   2/16/2012 at 17:51 (4,424 days old) by anthony (leeds uk)   |   | |
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i can remember my mum pluging our old electrolux into the light socket my dad was always having to refit the bayonet plug affair it had .the lux was the red loaf type cylinder with cream ends and a cream handle think it was a z 60 somthing along those lines it had its own built in safety device if you pulled it to far the plug came out of the back of the cleaner rather than ripping the ceiling rose off the ceiling later we got a senior 625a but the electrolux was kept for the stairs and the car it was also used regularly to blow air into the livingroom heater [parkray] to get it going on a morning after it had been slumbering all night .The Hoover senior 625a was the first of its kind to have the two speed motor the earlier pink one didnt not that it made much diference its suction was useless when the tools were fitted thinking back now my parents must have liked Hoover stuff because most of our apps were Hoover
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Post# 169807 , Reply# 32   2/16/2012 at 18:06 (4,424 days old) by vintagerepairer (England)   |   | |
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It sounds like an Electrolux 65. It would have been the same age more or less as your senior 652. Would the senior have been 2nd hand then? |
Post# 169826 , Reply# 33   2/16/2012 at 21:52 (4,424 days old) by sebo_fan (Scotland, UK, member AKA ukvacfan, & Nar2)   |   | |
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