Thread Number: 15806
TERRIBLE SMELL FROM HOOVER CONVERTIBLE MOTOR!
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Post# 168318   2/4/2012 at 20:12 (4,436 days old) by hoover719 ()        

I recently took apart (and cleaned) the motor of a Hoover Convertible model U4367. I made sure that I put it back together properly. Now, when I use it, although it sounds perfect, there is a very strong electrical burning smell after it runs for a little while. What could this be and how should I repair it? The bearings have been lubricated, if that

Post# 168319 , Reply# 1   2/4/2012 at 20:14 (4,436 days old) by broomvac (N/A)        

broomvac's profile picture
Did excess oil (if you even used oil) run down the armature? It could be getting burned there.

Post# 168322 , Reply# 2   2/4/2012 at 20:47 (4,436 days old) by hoover719 ()        

I have oiled the top bearing, so it may have run down the armature. Is this dangerous, can it be fixed, or will the smell go away?

Post# 168384 , Reply# 3   2/5/2012 at 12:36 (4,435 days old) by broomvac (N/A)        

broomvac's profile picture
If it is too excessive, the oil can actually light on fire from sparks from the carbon brushes. I doubt you put that much though, and I would not worry about it. You will probably have a bad smell for like a week or two, but that's probably going to be all that's going to happen.

Post# 168391 , Reply# 4   2/5/2012 at 13:15 (4,435 days old) by hoover719 ()        

I put in enough oil to fill the hole in the top bearing. If this is too much, should I take apart the motor again and clean it?

Post# 168500 , Reply# 5   2/5/2012 at 22:17 (4,435 days old) by broomvac (N/A)        

broomvac's profile picture
It's up to you. You're the judge on this one.

Post# 168704 , Reply# 6   2/7/2012 at 16:04 (4,433 days old) by mb_1981 (Fraser, MI)        

Did you drain the oil out before you reassembled?

Post# 168706 , Reply# 7   2/7/2012 at 16:17 (4,433 days old) by twocvbloke ()        

When lubricating sleeve bearings, like that in Hoover motors, you clean it out with oil-soaked cotton tips, and when they come out clean, fill the bearing with oil (sit it on a few layers of kitchen paper), leave it to sit for a bit, and then soak up any excess before refitting...

Oil on the armature isn't good, not entirely detrimental, but it's going to reek for a while, and could be a fire risk, so pull it apart, clean the armature as best you can and keep a fire extinguisher to hand just in case...


Post# 168745 , Reply# 8   2/7/2012 at 21:23 (4,433 days old) by hoover719 ()        

I have cleaned the area of the armature where the brushes make contact with clean, dry paper towels. Is there anything else that you would recommend me doing to reduce or prevent any safety hazards?

Post# 168811 , Reply# 9   2/8/2012 at 09:38 (4,432 days old) by twocvbloke ()        

There's not much more that you can do other than replace the armature completely, just be vigilant for any signs of excessive smoke, a CO2 extinguisher's handy though, if there were to be any problems, a quick blast from one of them would cool it all down in no time (other extinguishers, such as Foam, powder & water would cause damage to the vac, which would be costly to repair), but it should eventually burn off, hence the bad smell... :)

Post# 168814 , Reply# 10   2/8/2012 at 10:57 (4,432 days old) by hoover719 ()        

I got a second opinion from an electrician who recommended that I lightly sand the ends of the brushes and the top area of the armature with a very fine sandpaper. Do you think this is a good idea? If not, does anyone have a good, used, genuine (not aftermarket) armature that would fit this motor?

Post# 168903 , Reply# 11   2/8/2012 at 21:59 (4,432 days old) by hoover28 (Oneida N.Y.)        
cleaning oil off armature

you can use some brake parts cleaner spray to clean the oil off the armature and then sand the commentators with extra fine sand paper.

hope this helps

Chris


Post# 168904 , Reply# 12   2/8/2012 at 22:11 (4,432 days old) by twocvbloke ()        
"sand the commentators"

I thought talking Hoovers weren't until the 90's? :P

(I think you mean Commutator)


Post# 168905 , Reply# 13   2/8/2012 at 22:14 (4,432 days old) by kirbyvertibles (Independence, KS)        

kirbyvertibles's profile picture
Did you make sure the carbons are back in EXACTLY the way they came out?

Post# 168958 , Reply# 14   2/9/2012 at 11:13 (4,431 days old) by hoover719 ()        

@kirbyvertibles

There is only one way that the housing which houses the carbon brushes go in, and I put it back on the correct way.

@hoover28:
The armature and the commutator are the same thing, are they not? Should I first spray brake cleaner on the area of the armature where the carbon brushes make contact (let sit, wipe off?) and then lightly sand the same part of the armature? Also, which type and approximately which grit of sandpaper should I use?




Post# 168971 , Reply# 15   2/9/2012 at 12:24 (4,431 days old) by twocvbloke ()        

I think what he meant about the carbon brushes is if they went in so the armature was rubbing on them in the opposite direction to they were before opening your motor, meaning they'd be reseating, but they generally don't produce a terrible smell, just a slight ozone smell while they're being reseated... :)

I'm not entirely sure about using brake cleaner, it could strip the varnish off the copper wire, meaning you'd definitely need a new armature... :S


Post# 169091 , Reply# 16   2/10/2012 at 11:44 (4,430 days old) by hoover719 ()        

@twocvbloke:

So, you think that I can fix the smell by simply sanding the armature, or is there some other cleaning product that I should use?


Post# 169106 , Reply# 17   2/10/2012 at 14:31 (4,430 days old) by twocvbloke ()        

Personally I'd just leave it as is, if you're inexperienced in electric motor repair, you run the risk of damaging it further and running up the repair bill... :)

Post# 169143 , Reply# 18   2/10/2012 at 19:37 (4,430 days old) by broomvac (N/A)        
I second that.

broomvac's profile picture
I truly think you guys are making a WAY bigger deal out of this than it really is. If you wiped up the excessive oil, I am pretty much certain it won't catch on fire, and I definitely think leaving things as they are is the right way to go now. I think you may have a funny smell for maybe a week or two, but that's about it. Don't buy a new armature or anything. You will just be wasting your money.

Post# 169196 , Reply# 19   2/11/2012 at 10:00 (4,429 days old) by hoover719 ()        

I just took another look at the motor, and, while there was no oil there, there was some smoky, sooty, ash-like substance on the armature and the end of the brushes. Does this change anyone's opinion, and how exactly should I clean it?

Post# 169211 , Reply# 20   2/11/2012 at 12:01 (4,429 days old) by broomvac (N/A)        

broomvac's profile picture
Just clean it off.

Post# 169232 , Reply# 21   2/11/2012 at 17:05 (4,429 days old) by hoover719 ()        

I must apologize for continuous complaints, but I must say that I have spent quite a while wiping the armature off with a dry cloth towel and I still cannot get the "ash" off the armature. Is the only option at this point to sand it or is there something else that I should do?

Post# 169236 , Reply# 22   2/11/2012 at 17:39 (4,429 days old) by mb_1981 (Fraser, MI)        

It sounds like what you're seeing is normal though. The area where the brushes come into contact with the armature will have a black/brownish film which acts as both a dry lubricant/conductor to reduce sparking. Can you post a pic though?

Post# 169258 , Reply# 23   2/11/2012 at 21:21 (4,429 days old) by hoover719 ()        

Here are a couple of pictures. Do you notice the black marks on the armature?

Post# 169259 , Reply# 24   2/11/2012 at 21:23 (4,429 days old) by hoover719 ()        

Here is the next picture.

Post# 169266 , Reply# 25   2/11/2012 at 21:58 (4,429 days old) by twocvbloke ()        

Looks normal to me, the shiny bits are where the brushes contact the commutator, and the dark bits are where the copper has oxidised from not having anything to wear it away... :)

If you saw a particularly deep cut into the commutator, like my Senior 652 had, then you have a problem, but that one there doesn't and looks fine to me, I wouldn't worry about it, the brushes are probably just in need of reseating, which happens anyway every time you use it for a while after motor work and putting one or both of the brushes in the wrong way round... :)


Post# 169268 , Reply# 26   2/11/2012 at 22:37 (4,429 days old) by hoover719 ()        

Could you please instruct me on how to reseat the brushes, and will this correct the smell?

Post# 169321 , Reply# 27   2/12/2012 at 10:36 (4,428 days old) by twocvbloke ()        

Well, the correct way is with a commutator cleaning stick, but if you've never done it that way before, it's another way to ruin a good motor, and potentially injure yourself in the process...

The simplest way though is to take the vac somewhere that the noise won't be a nuisance, take the bag off, raise the nozzle off the floor and just run it continuously for an hour, it may not get them seated 100%, but it's better than getting it wrong and having to start again, plus the brushes will eventually seat themselves fully the more you use it... :)


Post# 169324 , Reply# 28   2/12/2012 at 10:39 (4,428 days old) by broomvac (N/A)        

broomvac's profile picture
Looks fine. Don't worry about it. Just run it to seat the brushes and get rid of the smell.

Post# 363135 , Reply# 29   12/5/2016 at 07:31 (2,670 days old) by fantomfan57 (Central Texas)        
Hoover Armature Help.......

So I picked up a Convertible last week. Sounded kinda rough, but I got it anyway because I believed it was a fixable issue.

Wrong, upon inspection of the armature, I discovered the shaft had worn right where it meets the bearing. Basically it is now cam-ed. Nothing I can do to fix it.

Does anyone have an extra armature they will part with. It is identical to the one pictured in this thread.

Please let me know. I would like to clear my work bench to work on two new vacuums.




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