Thread Number: 14511
Sanitaire clamping effect... or not |
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Post# 153540 , Reply# 1   9/28/2011 at 15:57 (4,565 days old) by Sanifan ()   |   | |
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This is the s670 I have. |
Post# 153589 , Reply# 4   9/28/2011 at 21:46 (4,565 days old) by kirbyloverdan (Egg Harbor Twp . NJ aka HOOVERLOVERDAN ❤️)   |   | |
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airflow in order to clean and deep clean . When it sticks to the carpet it can not clean properly. Many people think if they adjust the height to the lowest setting it will clean better that is false. Raise the height up a notch or two and always keep the belt changed they strech and don`t help with cleaning .
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Post# 153602 , Reply# 5   9/28/2011 at 22:21 (4,565 days old) by broomvac (N/A)   |   | |
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I believe on certain VGII brush rolls there are 2 different brush depth settings for the brush roll end caps, very similar to the way you can change the brush depth by rotating the end caps of a brush roll from a Kirby G series machine. If you pull the brush roll out you may notice this. Simply turn the caps 180 degrees and reinsall the brush, and see if that makes a difference.
I noticed these minute differences in the endcaps of the rollers when I was completely rebuilding my S661. (pictured below) |
Post# 153604 , Reply# 6   9/28/2011 at 22:26 (4,565 days old) by broomvac (N/A)   |   | |
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This is something I am sure you have already considered, but are the disposable bags in the machines BOTH new? If one is fuller than the other or more clogged, it will decrease airflow, reducing the "clamping effect"
Check the metal bottom plates, as not all are created equal. Some have vents and some do not. Also make sure it is properly installed, and check the seal around it as well. |
Post# 153746 , Reply# 14   9/29/2011 at 22:35 (4,564 days old) by broomvac (N/A)   |   | |
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Starting off, both of your vacuums DO have a higher amperage pancake type motor. They come stock with that kind. But, there are two different types of pancake motors, old and new, but both are very good and durable. The picture of the motor posted by twocvbloke is an older style with the open-top upper bearing. The newer ones are the same amperage and have a very similar construction. (picture below). The main difference is that on the new one the upper bearing is more covered or sealed to make it last longer, and that makes the motors sound a little different. That is like listening to the difference between an International and a Cummins diesel, they sound alike, but not identical. Chances are, whichever of your Sanitaires was made later has the later pancake motor, which I consider to be a good thing, seeing as how it has identical performance to the older one, the only difference will be that the upper bearing should last longer since it is sealed away from dust and from drying out as quickly.
As for this belt issue, I highly recommend AGAINST using smaller belts than stock, because I have seen armatures get ruined by an overly tight belt. I used to have the older style pancake motor in my S661 before I rebuilt it and put in a brand new pancake style motor, and the old motor was ruined by the previous owner when he used a Hoover belt. In use, as with any vacuum, the belt pulley will heat up quite hot, and makes the armature shaft bend easier. Pair that with a brand new, overly tight Hoover belt, and that armature shaft CAN BEND! And mine did! So now the shaft wobbled about a sixteenth of an inch back and fort, scraping the fan on the underside of the motor and the fan housing, and worst of all, rubbing the belt on the metal plate covering the bottom of the housing. This cracks and shreds (imagine rubbing a rubber band on the edge of a table) any belt (hoover belt or not) you put in this machine within DAYS, not months, like all belts should last. You can also tell if your machine is doing this if you spot a skid mark, kind of looking like a tiny version of those that plane wheels leave on runways, on the inside of the metal plate. Also, it was not the belt pulley itself that bent, but the actual threaded section of the armature, so replacing the pulley that screwed on to the end did NOT remedy this problem. The armature was MESSED UP! Now, I am not suggesting any of your vacuums are currently doing this, I am just warning you that if you decide to use non-Sanaire or non-Eureka belts, this could very well happen to you. And for those of you who do have Sanitaire issues where you cannot get your Sanitaire belts to last a bit more than a week, check for shaft wobble and the skid mark. |
Post# 153807 , Reply# 17   9/30/2011 at 16:53 (4,563 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)   |   | |
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Fitting a smaller belt Will shorten the life of the main bearing and the motor eventually.I love the fact that people will disregard what the Engineers who designed a machine tell them and do there own thing. Those machines have been on the market forever, the basic design dated back to the 50's maybe earlier. any teething problems have been worked out many years ago. these are not new products that are sold by the millions into domestic homes to last a year but commercial machines that are only bought due to there quality and longevity, If every sanitaire out there belt broke after two uses they wouldn't be in just about every hotel , school and office building across the USA.
If your belts are snapping that fast then the machine is set to close to the carpet causing the belt to overheat and snap
when vacuum designers choose a belt there is alot of testing that goes into choosing the correct tention belt. If you fit a smaller one you will over tention and damage the motor. we see it every day on many different vacuums. the customer comes in and says I fitted a new belt and all of a sudden the motor is making a noise. If you have ever seen the pully of a vacuum motor that has a blue ish color to it that is from fitting a belt that is to small.That is heat causing the color
when I was working in R&D we would test different belt tensions and if the belt was to small the spindle would often glow red and eventually melt the belt.
I like broomvac and most other guys who work on vacuums as there daily job would suggest you use the origional belt and save your motor
Gareth
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Post# 153828 , Reply# 19   9/30/2011 at 22:22 (4,563 days old) by thissucks ()   |   | |
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deal with the sanitiares is the belts will last a few months if it doesnt get overheated, setting too close even for one room will stretch the belt and will be useless in a couple weeks. |
Post# 153832 , Reply# 20   9/30/2011 at 22:49 (4,563 days old) by broomvac (N/A)   |   | |
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...I'm just cautious from bad experiences I have had before, and trying to let other people see the possible consequences of using parts not designed for the vacuums they are being installed in. I agree with gsheen on that the people who designed Sanitaires are not idiots (obviously), and as a matter of fact, have designed one of the most successful and widely used vacuums ever.
As for replacing armatures, I find it more convenient to simply replace the whole motor, which costs $35 at most places including Hesco, and includes not only a brand new motor, but also an entirely new fan and belt pulley. The fan and belt pulley are like $10 if you buy them separately. Not to mention the fact that installing a motor takes like 10 minutes. And about those upper bearing covers and the plastic vs metal, I am wondering why it would matter which could withstand impact and tension better, for the motors are protected INSIDE the vacuums, aren't they? Unless you are using the machine without a cover, and you are slamming the motor into things, the motor would never have to experience any impacts or tensions anyway. I would much prefer the added upper bearing protection provided by the plastic cover over having a metal top with a much more exposed bearing. If you are concerned that the new motors still do not provide a "true" sealed bearing, you could engineer a round piece of felt to cover the top bearing, doing what many vacuum makers do, and make added protection for that upper bearing. Though, even without that homemade piece of felt, the new motors still seem to offer more protection for the upper bearing than the older pancake motors. Sanifan-- Checking to see what motor you have in either of your vacuums is very simple. For the blue one, you should flip the vacuum over, and remove two springs holding the metal hood on using a pair of needle nose pliers, and then flip the vacuum back over and unscrew the screw in the middle of the height adjustment knob. Pull the knob off and remove the metal hood covering the vacuum. It is that easy. As for the red one, the process is essential the same, except for the part of pulling the springs off their hooks on the underside of the base. Instead of springs, there are two screws to be removed in approximately the same place on the base. Everything else should be the same. Also, based on your descriptions on how the machines behave when they are used, both of them sound to be working fine. I am pretty sure that the only reason they sound different is because they probably have slightly different motors, which you can confirm if you take the hoods off of the vacuums. I would DEFINITELY say it is fine and safe to use either of them, including the blue S670. |
Post# 153843 , Reply# 22   10/1/2011 at 04:01 (4,562 days old) by gsheen (Cape Town South Africa)   |   | |
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David
fist of all your comment "In mexico or some other cheapskate lazy-arse "That will do" country" is offensive, Have you ever been there. I have , to the factory and there is nothing cheap or lazy about it. I have been very privileged to go to many of these factorys were vacuums are made when I worked In R&D. Those peope work very hard for there meager money. You work or you don't eat there is no government back up plan for them.
second of all if you want "That will do" attitude look no further than your own country. My dad been British always owned British cars like a Rover sd1 and later on Jaguars, When we moved to SA he continued with them often importing them if they were not available locally as he was a proud of his country, however those were some of the most badly assembled and made cars, when they were made at all! if the workers werent on a strike and now they are owned by the Chinese and Indians. I have never been in a car that falls apart like they do, Not even the Chinese cars.
Fiting bigger wheels to your car , will give it better traction, it will also wear out the wheel bearing faster, go ask any kid with 23" rims on his Honda civic.
I have never ever come across a vacuum that was damaged by a loose belt, they snap. A normal cars engine spins at 7000rpm but in reality spends most of its life between 2000 and 3500 rpm. A vacuums motor spins at any thing from 15000rpm to 40000rpm depending on the make, they simply melt there way thru a non fitting belt in minutes.
As for your warped brush roll , we get those all the time on hoovers and on the odd Electrolux c as they were called here. Its caused by to tight belts
As said previously , these machines have been in existence along time, they are sold to many commercial places who buy them because they work, If they snapped belts like you say yours does then they would not sell. Commercial clients do not buy machines for looks they buy them to work and work hard . If they snapped there belts after 2 uses there would be allot of angry customers out there and there who wouldn't buy them any more, but they do buy them so they must work. |
Post# 153868 , Reply# 26   10/1/2011 at 13:55 (4,562 days old) by broomvac (N/A)   |   | |
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Post# 153870 , Reply# 27   10/1/2011 at 13:57 (4,562 days old) by broomvac (N/A)   |   | |
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Post# 154483 , Reply# 30   10/7/2011 at 22:54 (4,556 days old) by broomvac (N/A)   |   | |
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Post# 154487 , Reply# 33   10/8/2011 at 00:10 (4,556 days old) by broomvac (N/A)   |   | |
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When I saw the video I noticed the man was advertising a 7 amp vacuum identical to your red one except with a shake out bag, yet the careful observer will note that the vacuum shown running is NOT the actual one advertised. If you look at the bottom of the bag of the one running, you will notice it is not the shake out type. Also, I immediately noticed the sound of the 5 amp motor in that vacuum shown running, when it should have the 7 amp motor.
So the clip of the vacuum shown running is in fact that of one of the "Lightweight" five amp vacs you mentioned. Both vacs featured in the videos I linked use 7 amp motors, and the picture of the new style pancake motor I posted a ways up is that of a 7 amp new style pancake motor as well I hope that clears things up a bit. |
Post# 154488 , Reply# 34   10/8/2011 at 00:12 (4,556 days old) by broomvac (N/A)   |   | |
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Post# 154600 , Reply# 36   10/9/2011 at 00:37 (4,555 days old) by broomvac (N/A)   |   | |
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Yep, the brushes and beaters do help break the seal when the belt is strong enough to turn it fast enough. In fact, the whole purpose behind the beaters is to constantly shake the carpet away from the nozzle and keep it from sealing.
A tip for you: When changing the bag in a Sanitaire, I ALWAYS change the belt as well. About every six months I change both in my Sanitaire. The reasoning behind this is that the more you use the vacuum, the belt slowly weakens, but the bag slowly restricts airflow and suction at the same time. So, even though the belt is very slowly losing traction over months, as on any vacuum, the suction is slowly dropping as well, which means the carpet has less of a tendency to want to seal to the nozzle, meaning the belt has less work to do, and the loss of traction is not very noticeable. But, if you put a fresh bag in the vacuum, and you are using the same belt you used with the previous, and more clogged bag, you will notice the belt will struggle greatly to turn the roller. That is because the carpet wants to seal to the nozzle more when the bag is fresh rather than used, and if you are using a weak belt when you have a fresh bag, the result will be a vacuum that seals itself to the floor and prevents the roller from turning very well, if at all. That is why I always like to change the bag and belt at the same time in my Sanitaire. |