Thread Number: 11691
Forever Vacuum Bags?
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Post# 125828   2/24/2011 at 07:51 (4,799 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY)        

mark40511's profile picture
I came across this on youtube by accident......These look like they would work great and filter really well.......But emptying them....

They are machine washable...

Check them out and let me know what you think.


CLICK HERE TO GO TO mark40511's LINK


Post# 125830 , Reply# 1   2/24/2011 at 09:56 (4,799 days old) by twocvbloke ()        

Seen them before, wouldn't waste my money on them if I were you.... :)

Post# 125831 , Reply# 2   2/24/2011 at 09:56 (4,799 days old) by eurekastar (Amarillo, Texas)        

eurekastar's profile picture
I've seen those before, but that's the first time I've seen one for a Kirby. My one concern is the size of the bag. A Kirby bag is much larger. With a larger surface area, my guess is that it will allow for greater airflow and thus have more power. That's just a guess. The material looks just like the material on my Tristar.

Post# 125833 , Reply# 3   2/24/2011 at 10:01 (4,799 days old) by eurekastar (Amarillo, Texas)        

eurekastar's profile picture
Forgot to mention -- I think many people would like them, especially those who don't have as great an issue with allergies. I think he's been selling them quite a while, so obviously there's a market for them.

Post# 125834 , Reply# 4   2/24/2011 at 10:43 (4,799 days old) by luxg ()        

Very interesting Mark, I just wonder if anyone out there has tried these and what they think of them?? Any idea of cost?

Post# 125835 , Reply# 5   2/24/2011 at 10:52 (4,799 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY)        

mark40511's profile picture
Allergies?

Actually I think they would filter really well (like the hepa bags).........I notice a major difference with the paper micro lined bags as opposed to the hepa bags .....You can tell when emptying the bag, in the chamber that holds the bag, the chamber is messy with some dust that leaks out of the paper bag.....When using a hepa bag.........The chamber is perfectly clean..........

This is why I don't like to use the paper bags....Not only does the hepa bag filter better, but the fact that it filters better means you rarely will need to change the hepa or motor filter............

So I'm wondering if this filters as well as a hepa bag.....I don't have a problem with running out to the garage to empty it and the fact that it's machine washable is great.......

Those hepa (even aftermarket) bags are expensive..

These bags are 40 dollars though.....

But I'm a vacuuming freak. I go through them pretty quickly......



Post# 125838 , Reply# 6   2/24/2011 at 11:08 (4,799 days old) by twocvbloke ()        

Just remember, if you suffer from allergies, you shouldn't use these bags cos you have to shake them out and spray dust everywhere, not as hygienic as having a disposable bag (use polypropylene bags, not paper!!), cos with those you just pull them out and toss 'em out, simple... :)

Cloth bags are like the filters in bagless vacs, they get dirty, and they clog up after a few uses, they reduce the performance of the vac, and then you have to pull it out, clean it out, wash it, wait for it to dry, and then vacuum a few more times and repeat, too much hassle if you ask me... :)


Post# 125839 , Reply# 7   2/24/2011 at 11:10 (4,799 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY)        

mark40511's profile picture
Hmmm

I don't notice a loss of suction at all in my Kenmore Can with the cloth bags......Can u send me a link to the bags you're talking about? I've never heard of them.


Post# 125840 , Reply# 8   2/24/2011 at 11:47 (4,799 days old) by joshdonnell ()        
forever bags

i thing you should buy the forever bags . if you go through bags fast. 40 dollars one time . its being eco friendly . just undo the bag at the bottom. and get your trash bag and stick the forever bag and the there and shake. its a good investment . then throw away bags. buying bags over a year or 2 your just wasting your hard earn cash. when buying throw away bags

Post# 125841 , Reply# 9   2/24/2011 at 11:50 (4,799 days old) by twocvbloke ()        

Disposable Polypropylene bags are what people refer to as "cloth" bags, or 3M bags, they're the white bags that you see with most modern bagged vacs, depends on whether you can get them for your vac models, some you can't, but with a bit of glue and a little patience, it's easy to modify ones made for other brands to your own... :)

Post# 125842 , Reply# 10   2/24/2011 at 12:25 (4,799 days old) by williamr1248 (USA)        
Forever vacum bags

Mark,
I bought one for my Kirby Legend ll. It seems to filter as good as the throw-away Kirby bags. Mine came with a large slide off clip on the top. I have not noticed any more smell than I got from the expensive Kirby hepa bags. I thought it was a good value compared to buying all the replacement bags. I paid about $40.00. It seems to be made nice and the customer service was good. He gives you a price break if you order 2 bags. I think they can be washed too.
It seems to have very good air flow.
I was thinking of getting one for my Air-Way, just in case getting bags becomes a problem in the future.
Of course like any upright with a bag you are going to have a ordor. I thought it was a good value if you don't mind messing with a cloth bag,paper bag or bagless bin.


Post# 125843 , Reply# 11   2/24/2011 at 13:16 (4,799 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY)        

mark40511's profile picture
Twocvbloke

So when you say polyprop bags you actually mean "cloth" bags.......In your post above, you mention not to use paper or cloth, but to use polyprob bags, and that didn't make sense to me, because the cloth hepa bags ARE polypro bags........Right?

This is the type of bags I have been using and they are AWESOME! They don't lose suction as they fill and they don't leak AT ALL......If the forever bag works as good as these, which I suspect they do, then I may get one when my stash of bags comes close to running out.





CLICK HERE TO GO TO mark40511's LINK


Post# 125845 , Reply# 12   2/24/2011 at 13:31 (4,799 days old) by twocvbloke ()        

Polypropylene bags are incorrectly called "cloth", they're not cloth at all, they're layers of fine Polypropylene fibres that are not woven together, but pressed and fused together with heat, cloth is a woven material and is made in a completely different way... :)

The "forever" bags are just a cloth that is like having a Kirby with a shake-out bag, the only difference is it's a shakeout bag fitted in a regular bag. When you think about it, you have to pay for the utilities and washing soap used to wash the things, and when you total them up, well, you may aswell just save the effort and buy disposable bags... :)


Post# 125847 , Reply# 13   2/24/2011 at 13:42 (4,799 days old) by joshdonnell ()        
forever bags

true but throw away bags just seat in landfil for years they don't biodegrade . not being eco friendly . the forever vacuum bag is best end of story

Post# 125854 , Reply# 14   2/24/2011 at 14:30 (4,799 days old) by twocvbloke ()        

Bullcrap, the "forever" bag isn't "the best", far from it infact, it's just a rehashed old idea that's been about long before this "idea" was thought up. And after a couple of years of washing it'll fall apart and you're back to square one, AND it's thrown in the bin and whaddya know, it's sat in landfill...

Post# 125855 , Reply# 15   2/24/2011 at 14:45 (4,799 days old) by joshdonnell ()        
forever bags

i think it a good idea . btw i know because i own one . good day :)

Post# 125856 , Reply# 16   2/24/2011 at 14:53 (4,799 days old) by twocvbloke ()        

Owning something doesn't make it the best...

Post# 125866 , Reply# 17   2/24/2011 at 19:07 (4,799 days old) by scvacuumguy (SC)        

scvacuumguy's profile picture
The forever bag is a glorified dump bag. I've heard that they don't last very long at all. The poly bag is completely awesome, as Mark said earlier- there is no dust left in the bag chamber.



Post# 125868 , Reply# 18   2/24/2011 at 20:13 (4,799 days old) by joshdonnell ()        
forever bags

well i don't know where you heard that i have had mine for for 4 months now and it still works .

Post# 125869 , Reply# 19   2/24/2011 at 20:30 (4,799 days old) by luxlife (Under a Pecan Tree)        
Count yourself lucky if there's no dust left in the bag

Even my Miele Capricorn with the Poly bags still leaves residue in the chamber. I'm beginning to believe that vacuum cleaner filtration is a relative concept based on one dust containment scenario that may or may not better than the other, but I haven't scene one yet that is perfect. HEPA vacs/bags aren't supposed to make our homes cleaner or our air easier to breathe, they're just supposed to hold more of what they collect without leakage back into the air.

Post# 125870 , Reply# 20   2/24/2011 at 20:48 (4,799 days old) by eurekastar (Amarillo, Texas)        
What is "cloth"?

eurekastar's profile picture
Felt isn't a "woven" fabric. It's usually made of cotton or wool fibers that are PRESSED together and not woven. Yet felt is still considered a textile or cloth. Given that textiles are made from a variety of natural and artificial fibers and bonded together by a variety of methods, I think it would not be incorrect to refer to polypropylene bags as "cloth bags".

Also, I've decided to order one of the Forever Bags and try it for myself. I'd rather make a judgment regarding a product's usefulness and quality based on firsthand experience. I'll let you all know what I find. I want to thank Mark for starting this thread, because I've been curious about them for a long time.


Post# 125871 , Reply# 21   2/24/2011 at 20:54 (4,799 days old) by scvacuumguy (SC)        

scvacuumguy's profile picture
Think about the reality of air filtration in a vacuum cleaner. Let's say one vacuums twice per week, and it takes maybe 30 minutes of continuous vacuum use to clean a normal sized home. The average person is going to be vacuuming 4-5 hours per month. Does filtration really matter- if you are only moving air through the machine for 4-5 hours per month?

Post# 125872 , Reply# 22   2/24/2011 at 21:20 (4,799 days old) by joshdonnell ()        
hey

and a vacuums job is to keep the home clean

Post# 125887 , Reply# 23   2/25/2011 at 01:02 (4,799 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

I am wondering if this retrofit cloth dump bag would be better than the Keeler Kirby unit that has the pleated filter and dump bin.remember those?If you wash the bag-would think you need two-one in the vacuum-the other being dumpted,washed and drying.Think I will stick to the Filtrete style bags.And will the smaller retrofit version hold more debris?and you will need to dump these after each use-otherwise smells and clogging.And note they don't make a Forever bag(at least not yet)for the "F" style Kirby Sentria.And how bout the "future" Kirby?

Post# 125894 , Reply# 24   2/25/2011 at 04:19 (4,799 days old) by twocvbloke ()        
Keeler Krap...

The keeler bagless thing is just a bunch of Eureka/Electrolux parts designed for negative-pressure vacuums glued onto Kirby hose-ends, it is highly inefficient and relies on those cheap and nasty cartridge filters that love to clog up, especially when air is forced through them under positive pressure, it isn't going to work as well as a proper bag setup (Shakeout or disposable) as the Kirby is made for a large surface area for filtration, not a tiny little filter...

As to the "What is cloth?" question, well, that's already been answered, Cloth is a sheet of woven fibres, either natural or man-made, Felt is just that, felt, it's pressed wool fibres made into a felt sheet with heat and pressure, you could say the polypropylene bags are a form of Felt, just made from a man-made plastic instead of animal fur...

Just so you know I live in a part of the UK where the cotton industry boomed, so I grew up learning a lot in school about making cotton thread, cloth weaving, felting, clothing manufacture, etc., so I'm pretty sure I know the difference between Felt and Cloth, and a Polypropylene bag is not a Cloth material, it is pretty much a felted, heat-bonded fibrous material, and is not made on a loom which would make it a cloth...

And yes, filtration matters if you suffer from allergies, you never know what is in the carpet that has been dragged in on your feet, or blown in through the doors, windows or ventilation, if your vac is picking up allergens and spitting them back out, then, I wouldn't consider that a decent vacuum cleaner, thankfully I don't suffer from allergies like some do (I do get minor irritation when working on dusty and dirty things or using my Kirbys with their shake-out bags), but the mother does, and I do have to be careful with how I look after my vacuums and what they put out from the bags...

Not to mention, I'd much prefer a bag that doesn't compromise the airflow of my vacs, less surface area for filtration means less airflow means less pickup, and less pickup means there's no point in vacuuming if you're leaving the dirt in the floor...


Post# 125897 , Reply# 25   2/25/2011 at 04:52 (4,799 days old) by tolivac (Greenville,NC)        

I can agree on the pleated filters-they perform poorly in shop type vacuums-drywall cleanup is a hassle-you have to constantly clean the pleated filter of drywall plaster dust.Clogs them quickly.External filter wet-dry vacs are better.The Keeler attachment would be those that clogs after the user cleans each room.You are then forced to dump the dust cup and clean the filter-guess you would need a BAGGED canister cleaner to do that without inhaling the dust that clogs it.For Shop type vacuums you can get very large paper bags for them-far better than relying on the pleated filter-you use the bag and the pleated filter.then the vacuum gives clean air on the discharge.And Keeler promoting his gadget for pet owners-bet the pleated filter has to be replaced OFTEN or it will stink like a dead dog.--With the filter purchases-you have not saved-better to use the bags.So if the disposable bag smells-replace it.

Post# 125909 , Reply# 26   2/25/2011 at 07:45 (4,799 days old) by eurekastar (Amarillo, Texas)        
Felt

eurekastar's profile picture
By definition, felt is a "non-woven" CLOTH. Cloth is produced by weaving, knitting, crocheting, knotting, or pressing (e. g. felt) natural and/or artificial fibers together. My Kirby 4C bag has a felt bag. As far as I know, it is the only Kirby ever produced with that type of bag. I think most people would agree that it has a CLOTH bag, even though it wasn't made on a loom. Therefore, it's clear that not all CLOTH is produced on a loom by weaving fibers together. For that reason, polypropylene bags are CLOTH.



Post# 125912 , Reply# 27   2/25/2011 at 08:28 (4,798 days old) by mark40511 (Lexington, KY)        

mark40511's profile picture
Eureka.........You ordered one? Really? PLEASE let me know your honest opinion when you get it.





Post# 125928 , Reply# 28   2/25/2011 at 12:10 (4,798 days old) by swiveltop (Galveston, TX)        
Mark

I started using my rainbow D4 SE ,this is my third one ,I sold the first two,I didn't really like these vacuums, but started using this one and after a week or so my alergies have diminished greatly,I can now breath fron both sides of my nose

Post# 125930 , Reply# 29   2/25/2011 at 13:09 (4,798 days old) by jfalberti (Visalia, CA)        
I had a Panasonic

jfalberti's profile picture
commercial Jet-Flo vacuum that had a bag similar to the Forever bag in the bag chamber. It seemed to work well for that application.

Post# 125931 , Reply# 30   2/25/2011 at 14:43 (4,798 days old) by eurekastar (Amarillo, Texas)        
@ Mark

eurekastar's profile picture
I did order one. I'll let you know how I like it when it arrives!















Post# 125932 , Reply# 31   2/25/2011 at 14:46 (4,798 days old) by luxg ()        

That will be great Bill, I am very interested in hearing what you think of them as well.

Terry


Post# 125945 , Reply# 32   2/25/2011 at 18:34 (4,798 days old) by pr-21 (Middletown, OH)        
Reminds me of

pr-21's profile picture
I had one and it looks like the inside of a Kirby G4 bag. I bought it to fit the style c electrolux bag. I never used it but did tear it apart to use the gasket inside of the bag opening for something else. It detached from the collar with a pretty simple pull......


Bud


Post# 125952 , Reply# 33   2/25/2011 at 21:14 (4,798 days old) by djtaylor (Salt Lake City, Utah)        
Good idea

djtaylor's profile picture
Oreck had a washable bag just like the Forever Bags. I never used one, but it seemed OK. I have come to prefer the cloth-like white HEPA disposable bags, but would be willing to try one. I have emailed the store that sells them and asked if they will be making one to fit Fairfax. That is the machine I'd like to try the Forever Bag in. The Fairfax has really strong air flow, I'd use the Fairfax more often if it were so blasted loud.
Justin


Post# 126911 , Reply# 34   3/7/2011 at 17:27 (4,788 days old) by eurekastar (Amarillo, Texas)        

eurekastar's profile picture
Mine finally came in. I posted about it in the off-topic category.

Post# 126961 , Reply# 35   3/8/2011 at 02:25 (4,788 days old) by gmerkt (Edmonds WA)        

I've read through the numerous posts above on this topic.

I'm afraid I just don't get the idea of the "forever bag." Isn't it a step backward, installing a shake-out bag back into a machine intended to have the convenience of a disposable bag? Wasn't the idea of disposable bags to eliminate the mess of emptying a cloth capture bag, having dust flying around, etc? Wow, do I remember sticking my hand up inside my mother's Kirby 511 to get wads of hair out.

I know the idea of buying this bag one time and avoiding the purchase of multiple paper/poly bags is appealing. But then again, to me it's like buying a new car and specifying a manual transmission. I know some people buy them, but I can't imagine why.

If you don't like buying bags, you could get one of the new bagless plasti-vacs. Those are easier to dump and clean out than any cloth bag. And some of them have the added entertainment value of allowing you to watch the crap whirl around in the container while the machine is running.

You're not going to put that "forever bag" in the washing machine with your wife's unmentionables are you?? I'm reluctant to introduce quantities of floor dirt into my washing machine unnecessarily. I guess you could run the forever bag by itself in the washing machine, using up as much water and laundry powder as a larger load warrants; you still might wind up with a scum line on the inside of the drum from the vacuum dirt.

Don't take any of what I've said too seriously; some of it is just in fun.


Post# 126964 , Reply# 36   3/8/2011 at 02:41 (4,788 days old) by twocvbloke ()        
"it's like buying a new car and specifying a manual

But a Manual transmission's soooooo much more efficient at getting engine power to the wheels compared to an auto (less fuel used, more savings in the pocket, you just have to think a little more while driving, scary thought, I know!!).... :P

Post# 127053 , Reply# 37   3/8/2011 at 20:56 (4,787 days old) by gmerkt (Edmonds WA)        
Serious thread deviation

That's pretty conventional wisdom about manual trans. vs. automatics, but on modern cars the difference in fuel economy has gotten narrow. Modern automatic transmissions have lock-up torque converters and overdrive features absent on older models. Recent Consumer Reports tests show a difference of about 2-3 mpg on cars that typically get 30 mpg. Yes, still a savings of about 10% - in theory. There's always the issue of driver technique, and many drivers of manual transmissions tend to over-rev the gear which defeats fuel savings. Here in the US, the majority of the population lives in the cities or suburbs, which are becoming more and more crowded as time goes by, so with a manual trans, more shifting and clutch action. I live in an area with lots of hills, so starting out on a hill with a manual can be a pain with lots of clutch slipping (unless you drive an old Studebaker with a "Hill-Holder"). Then there's the issue of re-sale. Not as many people want a manual shift.

Having said all that, some people just like to go through the gears but I'm not one of them. The last manual shift I owned was a '40 Ford (for 34 years) with a three speed on the column. People thought it was quaint but I hated driving it. I've driven all sorts of newer vehicles with 4 speed manual trans. as well. I've told my wife, "The automotive engineers went to a lot of time and trouble to design an automatic transmission to make our lives easier." I'm taking advantage of it.


Post# 127056 , Reply# 38   3/8/2011 at 21:09 (4,787 days old) by gmerkt (Edmonds WA)        
Oh, I forgot to mention...

One of the Kirbys I bought cheaply once had a home-made "forever bag" on it. I think it was a G6 (oops, someone will correct me and say is was a "G-Six"). The previous owners were too doggoned cheap to buy a paper Kirby bag, so they tied a pillow case around the outlet tube on the riser. Small particle filtration? Zilch. Pretty good at filtering out large balls of cat hair, though.

Post# 127110 , Reply# 39   3/9/2011 at 15:17 (4,786 days old) by djtaylor (Salt Lake City, Utah)        
Pillow case as a bag???

djtaylor's profile picture
Gary,
That shows just how cheep some people are. I could see using one disposable bag over and over again, but a pillow case? That's just stupid.
When I worked for the local Oreck franchise I was told by one of the managers of a store that we were supposed to re-use the cones in the old Filter Queens in the work shops. So, for the first year that I worked for that company I would carefully remove the cones from the FQs(there were 5 stores owned by the same family) use a natural hair paint brush to dust off as much of the fine dust as I could, then put it back into the dust bin(after the bin had been emptied.). I was getting three uses out of each cone. Then the boss caught me do that, I told him what I was told. He thought that was funny, then told me to NEVER re-use the cones. As cheep as the 'after market' cones were, it was just a waste of my time to re-use them.
LOL
Justin


Post# 127129 , Reply# 40   3/9/2011 at 18:36 (4,786 days old) by vac_whisperer ()        
a cheaper alternative

Tomoorow, im going to try my own forever bag I will buid maybe both of thee:

1: Cut a leg off of an old pair of jeans or sweat pants and sew some paper towl to the inside. Then, instead of a bag slide, fold the top a couple of times and attach a bunch of those black paper clips to it.

Or, a better-filtering solution, which would probably be easier as well:

2: Cut the top of of a redualr paper vac bag. Fold the top a couple times and attach a few of those black paper clips.

Im going to have to doctor a couple of Kirby and oreck bags like this, 'cause those Kirby and Oreck bags ain't cheap. :)

VW


Post# 127130 , Reply# 41   3/9/2011 at 18:37 (4,786 days old) by vac_whisperer ()        
oops,

sorry for that "tomorrow" typo. ^blush^

VW


Post# 127135 , Reply# 42   3/9/2011 at 19:37 (4,786 days old) by twocvbloke ()        

Beaten you to it on Number 1... :P

(though I didn't use any paper towels as a lining)


Post# 127136 , Reply# 43   3/9/2011 at 19:45 (4,786 days old) by twocvbloke ()        

And a later revision to the mod, using a Kirby filltube and generic bag:

Post# 127141 , Reply# 44   3/9/2011 at 20:42 (4,786 days old) by vac_whisperer ()        

Thats interesting! How'd you do it? Tomorrow im going to doctor some bags!

VW


Post# 127148 , Reply# 45   3/9/2011 at 21:51 (4,786 days old) by twocvbloke ()        

Well, the bag was made from a trouser leg (my big butt split them!!!), and I just attached it with zip ties in the right place, and the Kirby bag conversion, I just used a normal Hoover Junior bellows thing and just stuck the filltube in there, and secured it with a zip tie, and that was it, easy as pie... :)

Oh, and I folded down and secured the top of the Kirby bag cos it was a little on the tall side... :)


Post# 270204 , Reply# 46   3/4/2014 at 08:30 (3,695 days old) by dandagreer (Nashville, TN)        
Wow

dandagreer's profile picture
I was strolling through the archives and read through this thread which inspired a search on reusable Kirby bags. I came across this blogger who came up with her own. Pretty creative I must say!

CLICK HERE TO GO TO dandagreer's LINK



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