I'm only 11 and tring to get a dyson.

never mind. I already got a hoover empower at a good deal.

would anyone want a Hoover Empower? It's not one of Hoover's finer machines. Make sure you buy several filters. I think you should still keep looking for that Dyson.

Derreck

Daniel...congrats on the new Hoover...let us know how well you like it!

--Tom

...the empower will get your carpets VERY CLEAN, at a fraction of the price of a Dyson...(ducks and runs)...

You would be better off with a Dyson DC17.

for $135 or less? where do they sell dc17s for $135 rob g? did you read the title of the thread?

How about a Dyson DC07?
Check Ebay and Craigslist for Dysons.
Dysons start out at $399.

I think the empower cleans **MUCH** better i agree with swingette! You completely right david!

To David..

I can say from personal experience that the Hoover Empower will only clean (VERY WELL) for about 2 minutes. I own (2) Hoover V2 Windtunnels and own a Dyson DC17. The Hoover V2 Windtunnel uses the same type of dustcup as the Hoover Empower. After a few minutes, the screen in the dustcup of the Hover is covered with dust and, in my case dog hair and the filter becomes very clogged reducing the suction. Since I have both the Dyson and the Hoover it is very easy for me to compare. No matter how much dirt the Dyson picks up, it still has great suction. I have many, many Hoovers in my collection and I REALLY like a lot of them, like my Decade 80. For some reason I just love that machine. But anyway.. for this very reason, I ordered the bag cup for my Hoover Windtunnel V2, because I do think it's a very cool machine, just hate the design of the "bagless dirt cup". In my opinion, the only bagless vacuum that works good is the Dyson, because of their cyclone design with no filters to clog.

Derreck

Of course Dyson just doesn't have the quality it used to, its no coincidence that our old DC02 is still used by my dad and that when my brother went to the dump one time pretty much all the vacuums there were newer model dysons.

Ian

Ian...I would have to say that I agree with you about dyson. Are they very popular over in England? Do the bagless cleaners sell better than the bagged where you are?

--Tom

...is prety much the same as our Fantom (pre euro-trash) lightning. We have a powernozle with ours. Is yours straight suction?

Ab

I'd definately say theres a trend towards cyclonic vacuums over here, although it is interesting to note that all the high quality machines over here, sebo, numatic, bosch, miele etc are all bagged. ;)

Ian

Ian..

I'm not sure what other kinds of bagless vacuums you have over there, but the only thing that I know here in the US is that many companies have tried to make a bagless vacuum, and the only one I would even spend the money on is the Dyson. Dirt Devil, Eureka, Hoover, and several other companies have made bagless machines, and they all seem like worthless pieces of you know what. The problem is, they all use some kind of bizarre filter system that somehow always clogs and gets disgustingly dirty, therefore reducing the suction tremendously. Dysons are more expensive machines here, but it's the only design that seems to "work Properly". If the other machines didn't have these filters that constantly clog, I would probably have a better opinion of them. I don't use a bagless vacuum very often. When I vacuum my house to really get it clean, I will either use my Rainbow E2 or, after next week I will use my Miele Red Velvet that I'm getting.

Derreck

Ian...thanks for the insight. Here it is sometimes harder to find an upright that is bagged. The bagless thing I think is just a fad. I still would rather change the bag in my old Hoover once a week or so than to deal with a messy bin everytime I sweep. I wonder if the high end machines will ever go bagless? I wonder why Miele, Sebo, etc. keep bags on their machines? I wonder what they know? Thanks again Ian!

--Tom

From what I read on their website, sebo machines are so well sealed the only filter needed is the bag (for obvious reasons lol).

I guess I may have misinterpreted the site ;)

Ian

My Sebo needs a exhaust filter. the first day of use it is gray from carbon dust. But, it has excellent filtration!

That cleared that up pretty well ;) lol.

I do know that the Hoover Dial A Matics have no real filters though.

Ian

The Hoover runs great.Im gald I got it.and I have to say luxboy, youre wrong.the hoover empower runs way longer then what you said.To anwser your questions the hoover empower works great.

I'm thinking next year in Omaha...Hoover EmPower or Windtunnel V2 vs. Dyson.

Hell, even the new Windtunnel 2!

My aunt has a empower lime color. She loves it but... she cannot stand the filters though. Every time I go over her house, i clean the filter out with my stick shark. BUT, I WAS THE ONE WHO BOUGHT IT FOR HER! she gave me te money and told me to buy her a good vacuum. THE FILTER IS NOT AS BAD AS DIRT DEVILS DESIGN!

Ab

But I would certainly take the Dyson over the Hoover. Keep looking for the Dyson, you will eventually find a good deal. I eventually found a nice one for $50. Htey are out there.

If you want a Dyson at a low price-you will have to settle for a used one-Get to know your DTD vacuum dealers-they may get one as a trade in and sell it to you-thats how I got a DC07-from a Kirby distributer.It was a trade in towards a Kirby.Other vac dealers may get them as well.If you get one used-prepare to REPLACE the filter and clean out its dust cup-as well as clipping hair,string from its brushroll.I got my DC07 from the Kirby dealer for $40.

In response to an earlier post (which i somehow missed lol) our particular DC02 was straight suction, although I believe later DC02's had an air powered turbobrush.

Ian

stick with the hoover. we have a dyson and i hate it u have to clean the brushes weekly for good preformance. and it breaks so easily exspecailly the gear drive.The hoover will be better. Just clean the filters often.

Tom Anderson:
I imagine the reasons that the high end vacuum cleaners use bags and filters is very simple. Surprised you don't know. It's that they cost MONEY. At Electrolux, a box of bags is $33. The bags for the Miele also cost money, as do the bags for the Sebo. My Hoovers also need bags (and filters). It seems I'm always buying something. Buy, Buy, Buy. Spend, Spend, Spend. Filter, bags, belts, etc.

Oh, by the way. I've never spent one penny on Dyson bags.

I love all the vacuums in my collection, but WHY, oh WHY can't all the manufacturers make bagless cleaners like Dyson does? Could it be that the profits on bags, belts, and filters is very high? I imagine Electrolux makes the lion's share of the profits on a $33 box of bags.

A box of ten bags for my sebo are $15. I would rather spend that much money for the sanity instead of emptying a filthy dirt cup,(unless it is a fantom). OH... my sebo will not loose suction! the bags take months to fill! Can a d---- work on shag rugs? My sebo sure can! will a d---- automaticly adjust its hight? Can you remove the brushbar with a touch of a button? You can shut off the brushbar,I cannot.

Ab

And then theres my amusing arguement ;p

Dyson: invented a vacuum cleaner that uses a cyclone.

Hoover: pretty much invented the modern upright vacuum.

who are ya gonna trust? ;p

i'll take 100 years of knowledge and experience over 10 or whatever any day ;)

Ian

but have we not gone back on ourselves? We invented the "bagless" machine: the Hoover model O. A shake out bag, indeed. Then, Air-Way came along with the disposable paper filter bag. That was so popular that even Hoover, the one who invented the shake out bag, stole the idea. But Air-Way sued Hoover and Hoover could no longer make their paper bags. Now, fast-foward to the year 2006, where people are going with Dyson and other vacuums that leak dust. They rely on filters to filter out most of the small stuff, while good companies, like Air-Way, still haven't budged from their position with paper bags. Sure: paper bags clog. But at least you don't have to worry with expensive HEPA filters! Rainbow makes it difficult to get the dirt out, as you are recommended to change it very often. With a paper bag, you buy some, stick it in, vacuum, vacuum some more, the bag clogs, you SANITARILY throw it in the trash can (no dirt flying around; UNLIKE the bagless systems), and simply put a new one in.

SO: WHY DID WE GO BACK ON OURSELVES??

~~K~~

I've heard that HEPA filtration is a gimmick intended to sell new vacuum cleaners to people and nothing more anyway I mean...people wern't dropping like flies in the 60s and 70s and before, before HEPA filtration.

comments anyone?

Ian

Derreck...I guess if you have money to afford the high end models you can buy the expensive bags. I would rather have the dirt in my bag and throw it away than leave it in the carpet. I can improve the performance in my Hoover with a quick bag change. I get my A, Z, Y bags cheap (5 for $4) and the C bags 20 for $1.50 so its no big deal for me. Why would you spend money on a dyson bag..the darn thing doesn't have one!! That is good! I like that one!!!

Maybe that is why Miele, Sebo have such a loyal following. They produce quality products with a bag. If you buy and pay for quality, then you tend to take care of the item by buying bags and belts for upkeep. I am no expert on these bojack brands. I just know what works for me, period. I just do not have good luck with bagless machines. I see no need of them in my life. I will continue to stick to my good 'ole Hoover Convertible. It did not cost me $400!

--Tom

I agree that by and large, all this hepa business is probably a lot of hyped-up sales-tactics hooey.

As Ian pointed out, people WERE vacuuming for decades without hepa AND without keeling over from asthma or tuberculosis!

Granted, hepa filtration -- not just in vacuum cleaners but heaters, air conditioners and air cleaning systems -- does help people who have allergies or are already prone to asthma. But those people are, thankfully, a tiny minority of the population at large.

Most people can safely use the vacuum cleaners, even the old "dust wheezers and dirt belchers" of days-gone-by without fear!

I mean, I use my old Hoover Junior at the moment..yes it makes me sneeze sometimes..but i'm hardly dieing from it :p

its quite well sealed actually, only sneeze when i'm emptying the bag (using an old vax cloth bag, fits like a glove..
I can't be bothered with buying the paper bags anyhow)

Ian

Charles,

Very well put and I could not agree more. Hoover, Kirby, Electrolux, all the big names came out with new and improved models every few years... facts being that not much changed. Kirby took up the amps on the motor a slight bit, changed brush rolls, added paper bags, but the true facts of the matter are that the machine really did not change a lot. They would find a new sales story to make the buyer think they had this wonderfully new and improved machine....chances are the motor and fan assembly was exactly the same as the last model.

Bagless machines are no different. Those of us, like myself who have allergies, know that a bagless machine does not help us at all, we still have to empty it... and what happens to all that pollen and dirt... back in your face in concentrated form...when it comes time to empty.

Kirby, Air-Way, Electrolux and others that use filtrete bags are better for me. All I have to do is gently remove the bag, cover the opening and I can generally get away with out even a single sneeze...Oreck even seals its own bag as you remove it from the machine...

I love trying new machines, even the bagless, they are all fun to play with, but give me an old Eureka upright, Hoover upright, Kirby, Royal, Lux, Airway, Singer, Hamilton Beach, Sunbeam or Filter Queen and I am as happy as a Bee in a Clover patch.

Morgan...

I agree completely. All vacuums are fun to play with, but for daily cleaning a bag just works better for me too.

By the way Hoover was notorious for not changing their machines. Just look at the Convertible series, the "60" series, or even the 700 and its derivations. Sometimes what is new is old.

--Tom

Sears has Eureka F&G bags for $10.99 for 15 bags.
Sears has Hoover A bags for $10.99 for 15 bags.
That is an excellent deal on bags!
I use the 3M Filtrete bags on my Kirby G3/Diamond Edition/Sentria and they work great!
In my opinion, The Kirby DOES NOT loose suction with the 3M Filtrete bags!

3M Filtrete bags are available for these brands/models:
Hoover A/Z/Y
Eureka F&G
Kenmore/Panasonic uprights/canisters
Kenmore/Bissell ProLite uprights
Kirby G series uprights
And a few other brands/models that I forgot to mention.

The new Hoover Constellation Type S HEPA bags are also made of material identical to the 3M Filtrete bags.
They could be included in that category as well.

Meile now uses Filtrete bags-under the "Intensive Clean" name-they fit older models.Riccar is using them now as well.they use them in their uprights and canisters.You can choose the Filtrete type bags or the traditional paper ones for Riccars.The F&G Filtrete bags sound great-these would of course fit Eureka and Royal that uses the "A" bag.

Where can you get Hoover size A Filtrete bags? I have never seen them. They would make the convertible the best vacuum ever!

but www.everyfreegift.com is giving away free dyson dc07 animal vacuums. I will have to wait to see if I will get one though.

I love the Miele bags.. the intensive clean with the "garage door" that comes down to seal it up as you take it out. VERY nice bags.

Derreck

I decided to vacuum with my Hoover V2 windtunnel which uses the same dustcup as the Hoover Empower tonight, and show what happens to the screen and filter after this machine is used ONCE. I like it much better with the bag cup, too bad they didn't make a bag cup for the Empower. Keep in mind.. the screen and filter were both clean before I started and I have a one bedroom apartment. Here are the pictures...

Here is the filter which I had vacuumed clean before I used it.

you do have a point. just for kicks i decided to borrow the Gift Shop's windtunnel bagless (at the hotel i work at) and use it to vacuum a little. i started off by cleaning the screen and filter beforehand. you WILL end up with dirt stained fingers, manipulating the filter and screen. i vacuumed an area equivalent to about a large room. the screen is not too hard to clean. just run a card over it and the dirt comes off in a sheet. the pleated filter, on the other hand, is a nightmare. id rather use a cloth bag than deal with that hateful pleated filter! the Hoover DID clean beautifully all the while...

If you keep vacuuming with that machine, I promise ;-) it will gradually lose suction as that screen becomes more clogged... and furthermore.. who wants to clean up that mess and scrape all that fuzz and junk off of that screen after every use.. certainly not me... lol..

Derreck

Today I vacuumed the house with my Kirby Legend with small rug nozzle and my G6. Both were fitted with filtrete bags. I have to agree with Ron..the machine seemed to maintain the highest suction throughout and the air flow is amazing. Even over the noice of the Kirby you can hear the rush of wind distinctly almost like you do with an Electrolux G. This is the third major cleaning with the same filtrete bags in each of these cleaners and there was no odor and no apparent loss of suction.

I also was amzaed when...much to my dismay... while dusting a table in my room, the G-6 inhaled a small pebble I had gotten as a remembrance from the Sea of Galilee. The amazing thing was that there was plenty of suction to draw this pebble right into the machine. I was also amazed that it did not harm the fan one bit!!! I do have several other stones from that place so I don't think I'm going to tear open the bag to find it. But clearly there was plenty of suction and the fan was sturdy enough to bear the assault of this pebble! Yea for Kirby and Filtrete!

I really do like filtrete bags. Just the other day a lady brought in her Miele for a regular serice and cleaning. The Intensive Clean bag was absolutely packed full of dirt, and backing up into the intake. The vacuum still had enough power to keep cleanin, even though you could tell it had lost a more than noticeable amount of its power.

Derreck...your pictures prove a good point...bagless is very messy and sometimes not an option for those with allergies. It is much easier to change a bag and be done with it. I had a Hoover bagless cleaner circa 2001 and hated it. I gave it away to the carpet guy after he installed our new carpeting. I figured it would be good at vacuuming new carpet fluff. Anyway it is out of my house...it was way too messy. Thanks for the pics.

--Tom

And I hate it how (has anyone else noticed this) that when you use a bagless machine for awhile, depending on the type of dirt you pick up, the clear canister becomes sandblasted, and hence "frosted." It's not clear anymore.