Al is an bachelor buddy of mine who's also heavily committed to the hobby of mechanical music machines. I'm the one who introduced him to the hobby back 6 years ago on a weekend visit to my home. I've been driving out to Winnipeg at this time of year for 5 years now - there's always some machine or other that's in the last stages of a full restoration at his home...and in mine back in Stratford. Besides the vacuum's population explosion my own winter music project is a 1938 Steck Ampico baby 36: high spinet reproducer...

There are 3 perforated paper roll operated pneumatic player pianos in this picture, the Steinway we're working on, a fully restored with midi interface 6 foot flame mahogany 1932 Mason & Risch Duo-Art behind it and a 1920s Mission cased Sherlock-Manning Themodist upright.

Specific to this thread, a gutted (of it's Duo-Art reproducing player parts) 1923 6.5 foot Steinway seen in the foreground obtained from a lady in Seattle WA a few years back with the intent of retrofitting a Duo-Art player action back into it. Al was lucky indeed to find for sale on eBay 1 year ago the complete Duo-Art mechanism removed from this exact model Steinway. Over the past 2 years the manual piano action has been rebuilt & regulated, new strings installed, the finish re-amalgamated (as opposed to a total refinishing) and prior to my arrival he has rebuilt all the separate player components and the rotary pump that reside below the soundboard under the piano.

We spent a feverish Tuesday and night reinstalling all the underneath components and the pump, keybed control levers & linkages and sorting out all the control tubing runs. As you can see that's quite a tangle of tubing hanging every whichway, all of which will be tucked up and routed through the correct tidy paths as the final piece to be re-built, the pneumatic stack, is manuevered into place later this week.

Those 88 short lengths of tubing hanging attach to the individual note playing pneumatics in the 3 tier stack. Each vacuum induced pneumatic pushes up on the back of the piano keyboard, at whatever strength level the paper roll control track (or the midi velocity signal) specifies. The entire player system operates on variable atmospheric preassure differential...aka Vacuum.

Wednesday morning we began the task of re-building the 3 tier pneumatic action stack. The individual rubber cloth covered note 'bellows' have already been recovered and hot hide glued to the 3 boards.

The tiers are separated so that the pouch boards can be renewed with new leather pouches, and each valve unit is taken apart, new leather valve facings installed. Then each valve is adjusted for travel within precise parameters and the tier then tested for fast repetition under vacuum.

Al took care of redoing the valves, my job was to first cut of 88 pouch circles from thin pouch leather skin and repouch the boards.

We do one tier at a time and absolutely no parts are interchangable othet than the tiny screws holding the plates in place. The plates must go back in the place in the same orientation as original, so fastidiousness is the rule.

Note the Compact brush tool...with a temporary plastic hose we are using the Turquoise Compact C6 & its tools for constant cleanup on the workbench/Dining Room table.

Al is amazed & very pleased at the sucking power & quietness of the Compact.

We want to finish this before bedtime...so we can have some ice cream.

Thursday we'll reattach the side plate manifolds to the 3 tiers and the stack is ready to be hoisted back up into the bottom of the piano.

Then comes the pleasant task of spending hours on our backs under the piano routing all that tubing to the correct nipples and tucking the tubing & vacuum supply hoses neatly back into their proper channels as the stack is slowly raised up to position on bolts. There are also long keybed control levers & rods that must pass through the top of the stack at the same time before final bedding of the stack. We'll complete the testing and fine adjustment & regulation of all these components on Friday using original paper rolls to be sure the piano can kiss the keys at PPPP as well as come close to breaking hammers at FFFF. :-)

On Saturday we should be able to then splice in the Spencer Chase midi interface valve units & ribbon cables. With good fortune on our side the Steinway should be playing midi files from my roll scanning projects - over a wireless feed via a laptop by dinnerytime.

We have this system working flawlessly since last year on Al's other grand, The Mason & Risch. See link for full information.

Both pianos are capable of playing either paper rolls or midi files at any time. Neither system displaces nor interferes with the other. In fact, while the system of choice is playing back you can sit down and play along with it just like any piano. :-)

My Winter vacation & Spring project, once I get back home...

Dave's Happy Place, of course. :-)

Full reproducing player system in the finest full sounding drop action spinet I've ever heard or played. Simply amazing sound. Of course, it weighs as much as a standard 59" Parlour upright player piano.

Colonial Chippendale was all the rage in home furnishings in 1938 America & Canada leading up to WW2 and the Aeolian-American Piano Company (merged in 1932) wasted no time capitolizing on this emerging trend while finding a use for all those player parts languishing in stock following the crash of 1930 that all but killed the player piano era.

Complicated beyond belief! It looks like you guys are doing a fantastic job - I can't wait to see the finished Steinway! Will you be able to post a video/audio file online?

Thanks for taking the time to share your craft with us!

WOW!! Man, I wish I had one of those player pianos! They are so cool...although I'd only buy a pneumatic kind, not a new one. Your talent is truly a spectacle! Please keep up informed on the progress, and I'd love to see the Midi thing you are going to put in it! Thanks for sharing! :-)

~~K~~

Oh, and I want to hear some Scott Joplin rolls! :-D

I don't know where you get the patience or better yet why I don't have the patience for intensive detail work. That would drive me more insane than I already am. Speaking of pianos there's a beauty Story & Clark sitting at our local Habitat ReStore right now and I am so tempted but I'm still wanting the organ.

As you know Dave, I am involved with pianos. And it gave me great pleasure to see how meticulous you both are being with that Steinway!!!! It will be great to hear the composers selections played back with the original expressions. Oh, what they could do with something as "simple" as those cloth covered bellows, some wood, brass, and leather. Just amazing!!!! Keep up the good work!!!!

P.S. I hope you didn't wear out your pouch dishing tool!!!

Pete, How much do they want for the Story and Clarke ?

They're asking $300 for the piano

OH my Dave what an awesome instrument and job you have at hand. I have a couple of friends here in Columbus Ohio who
collect reproducing pianos and repair. My friend Shawn had
a duo-art case grand with a the reproducing system. It was
one of 11, made in 1933. He sold it to another friend here
in columbus. So it now sits in grand style in an old Victorian home just south of Ohio State campus. Shawn
actually had the grand plus 3 upright and all 4 reporducing
systems and rolls. When I first met him I wasn't sure if it
was he or the pianos I was falling in Love with! LOL!
Good fun to see the hard work you are doing!!!
Norm

This morning the stack went together with the addition of the bleed rail in front and connection of rubber tubing runs from stack to bleed rail nipples. Adjustment of poppets (key lifters) then testing using the Compact as a vacuum source.

Large nipples admit vacuum from the expression box (the brain) to the bass and treble side of the stack.

88 tiny hoses from the paper roll box tracker bar , that run down between the keys to junction boxes connect up here to the bleed bar at the front of the stack.

The stack is an exact fit between the piano legs and there is a bundle of 16 small control hoses that pass through a channel beside it. Consequently, one piano leg must be removed to fit the stack and route the additional hose bundle.

Remove one leg, lifting piano corne using a 2x4 lever with a bar stool as a fulcrum, while sliding second bar stool under piano front as temporary leg. As easy as it sounds...the kitchen stools just happened to be the right height. :-)

that is one Beautiful Piano

While Al on his back holds up the stack with his knees and arms Dave scrambles from side to side putting in the 6 screws...

The stack is then slowly screwed up until the keys begin to lift dampers. Shims are inserted to bring the keyboard to a basic crowned level. In this case 1/16" was needed.

Have I mentioned that this stack & all player components did not come out of this piano? Well, by a happy co-incidence, all the screw holes match up. We did have to take the stack out once to cut a few notches that did not line up with control rods. That interference taken care of, the stack slid into place as though it had been fitted originaly.

that is one Beautiful Piano

Al reconnects control tubing while I connect note pneumatic tubing.

We shall now have some hearty dinner. A roast & potatoes have been slowly cooking all afternoon.

Piano will be playing paper rolls before bedtime.

For the obsessively observant, that's a second identical Sherlock-Manning Arts&Crafts upright Themodist piano in the front room, same as the one in the dining room.

THAT is SO cool!! You and your dad are very talented at this. If I ever get one...I just might have to get you over and help me! :-D HAHA!! You will have to make some sound recordings of some rolls! That'd be really cool. Keep us posted! :-)

~~K~~

Long Live Mechanical Musical instruments!Love 'em!And Kadoos to the folks that repair and rebuild them.Its a fascinating feild.Don't have any instruments myself-just wish I did-but would need to find a castle in Greenville.Just have to be content with the LP,Cassettes,and CD recordings of them I have collected.The Organ Historical society has a good selection of recordings of mechanical instruments.Reproducing pianos are neat-unlike regular player pianos which play each key with the same loudness or force-Reproducing pianos play with expression like a human player-loud or soft,as the music requires it.

Jeez Kyle, Al will get a kick in the head over that one. I know he looks older than me *wink* but he's actually only 49. I'm the 53 year old. LOL

Ah, but we are ever young at heart that have a hobby...or several.

As for recordings of original rolls...check this website for FREE midi files of scanned piano rolls, some by my very own wee self. Play 'em back over your computer sound system...or...Nothing sounds better than these midi files played back over a midi keyboard instrument. Next to a real acoustic valve or solinoid equipped piano such as a Yamahonda Disklavier.

Click on: Archive of preserved piano rolls in midi form

Rick of Snellville, you know what I mean and I hope you've downloaded everything for your piano's completion.

Normvac, I know a Shawn Fox, who moved to Columbus from Sanduski? As for those other gentlemen, well, perhaps they belong to AMICA, tho' I do perhaps not know them, yet. I see 5 single gents listed for Columbus OH in my AMICA Directory.

Meanwhile, tonight's hoped for midnight news is...YES YES YES!!!
Connected the last tube at 9 pm, popped in a roll and plugged 'er in. Instant success and full range expression. Now all we have to do Saturday is tweak it here and there a bit.

Man, Nothing growls like a Steinway.

Videos were taken but are huge in size. Am going to do an Mpeg edit of a snippet of DV tape tomorrow.

Read Aeoliandaves link-figure a good material to make rolls from for those who have an instrument that plays rolls-Why not have the roll makers and duplicators cut them from a material called DuPont's "Tyvek"Its a spun fiber polyethelene sheeting like paper.Its also used as house wrap.this should make good instrument rolls-durable,waterproof-and non aging.Roll cutters would have to be made or paper roll cutters altered to cut and punch the Tyvek.Also advertising banners are made out of Tyvek-the ones that look and fell like paper.-but very strong-Try tearing an peice of Tyvek-its tough!

These materials and more have been tried in the past. While the material is thin enough to roll up into equivalent duration of music, the 'paper' makes a hell of an annoying noise passing over the trackerbar. QRS of ZBuffalo NY switched briefly in the 1980s to a mylar medium but there were too many customer returns to continue. Same goes for paper too heavily glazed, such as pink butcher's wrap. Lightly waxed paper is good but if the coating is too thick it rubs off on the trackerbar and flakes are sucked into the system.

The most economical and reliable medium is still glazed paper stock and it's much thinner than printer paper - more like the thinnest newsprint stock. It's used by all the independant roll re-cutters around the world. the problem with original old rolls is the same as that for libraries, universities, archives, etc. acid content is slowly destabilzing the paper. I have had old rolls shatter into cornflakes from a light tap while equally aged rolls are in tiptop condition. Anyway, the point is moot as within the collector hobby just about any original roll has been re-cut on new paper, or can be custom ordered in lots of 16.

Oh my gosh, Dave!! I completely misunderstood! I really do apologize...! I guess I was too busy looking at the pictures to read your VERY FIRST POST! :-)

Dave, I like your scanner! How does the computer know to make the dots in the right place? This seems like an ingenious system. Can you "play" the e-rolls on your computer? Also, can you print them out and make copies? Thanks for all of the information...and I am sorry about the "dad" thing! :-)

~~K~~

My own portable roll scanner was left at home in Stratford so I would have room for vacuums. LOL Besides, Terry Smythe has two here in Winnipeg, one of which simultaneously scans the song lyrics as well with a second CIS scanning bar.

The method we developed is, we replace the pneumatic trackerbar in a specialy modified roll box with a light source behind the passing paper (12" white, green or blue 14 vdc thin fluorescent tube). The paper passes as usual, but over two round brass bars spaced 1" apart. in front of the paper we place a 12" Contact Image Sensor bar from a old, out of manufacture A10 Mustek 11.75 x 14.5 flatbed scanner (consumer scanners these days use 9" CIS bars.. standard paper rolls are 11.75" wide). The initial CIS scanner file is rather large at ~50MB per 4 minutes of music perforations. The custom coded software does the number crunching.

Several software program steps to go through translating the line by line b&w image. Depending on what type of roll was scanned (88 note, Duo-Art, Ampico, Welter, 112 or 172 pipe organ roll, etc) another software program applies the reproducing algorithm to that file and outputs a midi file (about 20KB for 4 minutes) with full encoded expression ready to play back on a 'normal' midi instrument or computer. It can also output an e-midi file for use only with pneumatic pianos and stop registration changing organs or orchestrions that send signals to the various control tracks via electromagnetic valves just like the notes.

A third option is to produce what's called a perforater file that will instruct a roll cutting machine so equipped (they all are these days) to reproduced on new blank paper rolls exactly what the file specifies. Infinitely customizable, it is able to duplicate the stepping speed parameters of whatever machine rate the original roll was perforated on. The scanner captures exactly what it sees, the individual punch dots that make up single hole, long slots or chain perforations of the paper 'software'.

Read through Terry's excellent website chapetrs and headings for a full exp[alnation of the systems and results. Its a lot of reading but a comprehensive education for the layman.

There are perhaps a dozen of us around the world that have brought roll scanning to a highly accurate yet affordable endeavor, out of the hands of corporations.

in my haste I meant that standard piano rolls are 11.25" wide.

There are over 5,000 scanned rolls as midi files on Terry's site, from all ages, classical, light classical, popular, ragtime, Foxtrots...from ordinary one level 88 note rolls, through snakebite Themodist accent rools and the best of all, midi emulations of Duo-Art, Ampico and Welte selections.

Look for the Christmas roll medleys for this happy time of year.

Knock yereself out, Folks. My present to you and yours...

Dave Kerr

I have a Roland E10 synthesizer with midi ports on the back but never used them. Would need a cable as well je suppose and well I'll wait till the next time you're in town to take a look as this all is beyond me.. LOL

All you need on your computer is a USB 1.1 port and yer good to go, once I bring you a $50 USB midi interface with midi in/out cables attached. :-)

This is the Roland Edirol UM-1EX version.

Like the idea of the "optical" roll scanner-recorder-great idea-a marraige of both old and new.
what sort of "noise" did the synthetic roll matrials make as they passed over the tracker bar-I have heard of problems with magnetic tape-making a squealing noise as it passes over the recorder heads.when you are recording or playing back the noise modulates the recording.some tape types did that-and like music rolls tape deteriates with age-the old acetate tape recordings.the tape gets brittle and if to so cannot be played back without damage.I wondering if the new roll materials suffered "stiction" like some magnetic tape materials and oxide layers did-causing the noise as they passed over the heads.Also in the case of "stiction" recorder-tape problems the tape paths on the recorder and heads had to be thouroughly cleaned after each pass.Esp with non-replaceable and new "green" tapes-those that haven't been used much and brand new.They can shed.Mylar has the problems is that it doesn't break clean-it stretches before breaking-poses problems for both magnetic recordings and motion picture film.You have to splice out the "stretched" section meaning loss of program.The Acetate matrials can be easily spliced where it broke.
for music--guess there is no substitute for the paper-but the paper can be of the "Acid free" Archivial grade-would be worth the cost for roll recordings that need to last or are precious.Archivial paper goes thru more rinse cycles to rid the paper of the acid-does make it more expensive-books are being made of this type of paper.Would think it could be available for music rolls.Another question-can older intact rolls be rinsed like what is done for books and movie posters?Since the roll is perforated a special machines or process would have to be developed for this process.The process washes and rinses the acids out of the paper-but it can only be done for paper products that are just starting to deteriate-not those that are far gone.

This morning we cleaned up the workshop...er...living & dining rooms and kitchen and moved the Steinway back into its corner. Waiting patiently all week, Terry Smythe came over before noon for it's debut. Sorta the AMICA version of a VCCC Micro Meet. :-)

Terry lives here in Winnipeg and is in his 79th vigorous year. He's been involved with and restoring mechanical music machines for many decades, as detailed on his website I sent you'all to yesterday.

Mmm, I suppose he's old enough to be Dad to Al & I. He couldn't ask for two more suitable sons to carry on his world class work...ROTFL.

Anyway, Al on the left is the proud Papa of this Steinway, I on the right merely helped Shake & Bake it.

Here in Winnipeg, Al is on the board of an entirely volunteer run Bar/Dance Club/Community Centre establishment called GIOS. This afternoon was his rotation to clean up from last night's revels and open the bar at 4PM til his shift ends at 9pm. I went alomng to help. After sweeping the broken glass, a cell phone, straws and tinsel off the dance floor I was put on Vacuum Duty on the carpet covering the other half of the floorspace. :-) Good friends just know how to keep me in my happy place.

I left at 5 to do other stuff (laundry/dishes/posting to the Forum) as Christmas Eve is coming fast...on a Full Moon. Yikes!!!

Back at home tonight, having latexed and prepared the Electrolux hose last night for the Compact transplant, the operation was a success.

Totally airtight and couplings swivel as intended.

The turquoise is a shade somewhere between these two. :-)

Looks darn good, I think, and gives Al a powerful basic yet stylish vacuum he can use upstairs and on subsequent restorations.

Ok so they are recent 'vintage' ands mere lowly stickvacs but ain't they cute? How could I leave them behind this week at the Salvation Army Thrift Store for the Holidays?

The Black & Decker FloorBuster hasn't got a scratch on it and uses two B&D Versapak 3.5 DC cells. The graceful swoop of the handle is what got me.

The Swiffer vacuum sweeper, well, it's Turquoise, first of all. Second, it is also in like new cosmetic condition. Has an awfully clever articulated universal joint around the hose I admire and the floor nozzle flips up out of the way when you just want a really heavy non-vacuuming Swiffer floor brush....in Turquoise :-) You can still get these in stores...for $65. I got these two vacuumettes with chargers and 6 Versapaks for a total $7.

Watch the other guys' driving and stay well away from bumpers, please.

My drive home is going to take 4 days to get to Sarnia to give Pete his treasures and pick up my New Treasure for Hector. Pete found a black longhair male kitten, who I think is only 7 weeks old now? You see, I also lost Dexter, Hector's brother of 11 just years to a very sudden unexpected renal attack the weekend before I was heading down to Pennsylvania.

Naturally I had Hector, the shorthair, checked out and he came up excellent health, but he has been alone with no playmate sibling all these weeks as I scamper about doing my must-dos. The friend bringing in the mail and clearing snow drops in every day and spends some reading time on the couch but...

So, I look forward to bringing wee Felix home to Hector and supervising their acquaintence and bonding over my next 3 weeks of vacationtime.

What I started out saying is, I will be driving 3 hours to Fargo ND on Christmas Day Tuesday, when everything is closed. Wednesday on to Minneapolis for the afternoon and overnight. Thursday will get me the 8 hours to Merrillville IN and Friday will get me to Port Huron, MI/ Sarnia ON by dinnertime. That's the plan to get me home in daylight on Saturday to unload and settle into my own Christmas in Stratford. Pete, I'll be emailing you...

Heeeeere's Felix the Furby.

Thanks for all of those fascinating pictures Dave, I'm sorry for Hector's and your loss, I hope Hector takes a shine to little Felix, what a pretty kitty! I just lost Paul the Cockatiel on December 10th, and a friends cat had to be put to sleep. It's never easy, but December is not a good time for these occurances.

Good stuff there.. I have one of those Black & Decker FloorBusters. Many many years ago we bought a set of B&D tools, saws, sanders, drills, spotlights etc that all worked on those weird batteries and I added to the set with the vacuum and some other things.. Well wouldn't you know it they quit marketing them and the batteries are near impossible to find now except the odd time on Ebay. I'm down to about 2 batteries now out of 10 that barely hold a charge. Never gonna buy B&D stuff again, ever.

I'll be seeing little Felix for the first time Christmas day, we're heading out to my sisters. She's dreading seeing him go now. I think he's about 10 or 11 weeks now and just had his second set of shots last week.

Yeah Pete, the 6 Versapaks came with the Floorbuster won't hold a charge. Al says when they used these batteries at CNR they used to take the batteries into the lab to deep discharge them, which would renew like new. Not something the homeowner can do in the basement unfortunately.

But, you can still get the batteries and charger bases at Lowes/Home Depot/Ace Hardware. I plan to pick up a Gold pair on my way through Minnesota because I want this Floorbuster to be in working condition. I have in the past successfully rejuvenated the B&D cordless screwdriver by replacing the nicads. Usually in these battery packs, only one battery goes south, the other ones in line are fine.

Well if the batteries aren't too expensive can you grab me some as well. I think I saw them at HD or CT and they were like $35 ea. Heck I only paid about $25 for the vacuum with 4 batteries and the charger when I bought it.

Running $16-17 each down here in America. :-) I need a new charger too as this one has scorch marks on the circuitboard.

And a Merry Christmas Eve to all tonight wherever you are and whatever you're up to.

Me, I'm tarpped in Winnipeg but with two grands, three uprights and a good buddy to try all the music with. Staying here Tuesday for a big Christmas dinner.

Have now put off my departure one day.

Merry Winterpeg Christmas LOL
I'll take two batteries if that's no trouble, unless they're on sale for less