Good evening everyone. Now that i have your attention i thought i would share something gayer than "Queer as Folk" and "The Golden Girls" combined. Was it really this queeny in the 70's?

Rock Hudson and "Miss Thing"!

Oh my!!!!!!!

Boy does that take me back! They sure don't have shows on TV like that anymore! I always liked the Variety Shows of the 70's and the 80's. Okay, the 60's too. My favorite was the Carol Burnett Show!! That was the best!

Marty

Oh that does bring back the memories, yes Marty I have to agree too that Carol Burnett was the best. That use to be our Saturday nights, Bob Newhart and then Carol. Terry

Not at all for the Off-Topic forum. Thanks - I love it. I forgot all about Madam.

About ten years ago i went with some friends to a dinner party at one of their aquaintences home in Palm Springs. One of the hosts was a nurse also. As the evening progressed i decided i didn't like him very much because his nursing stories just didn't sound right and i doubted that he really was a nurse.

As the night progressed and the booze flowed this guy anounced that it was time for Madam! My friend next to me whispered to himself " on no". Out of the closet comes this suitcase and in it was Madam! The real Madam! The co host told the story how he bought the rights and the Madam doll. We suspect the doll was stolen but i digress. The whole act was nothing but a unfunny drunk rambling of gay dishing. Waylon Flowers would twirl in his grave if he knew what happened to Madam.

I'm not sure if there was more than one Madam doll in existance but if there was only the one, well it's a shame how it ended up.

This turn of the thread reminds me of one of my favorite jokes:

These two hospital doctors are standing in the hallway talking about the various medical staff people they work with, and they get to talking about the nurses.

Doctor Jones says, "That new Nurse Nelson has to be the DUMBEST nurse I have EVER seen!"

Dr. Smith says, "What do you mean?"

He replies, "Every procedure I have told her to do, she has totally mixed up! Last week, I told her to give my patient Mr. Jackson one pain shot every four hours. She was giving him FOUR shots every hour! That poor human pin cushion nearly had an overdose! Then the other day I told her to give my patient Mrs. Jenkins a one-quart enema every eight hours. She was giving her an EIGHT-quart enema EVERY HOUR! The poor lady nearly exploded!!"

Dr. Smith says, "Well, I guess you're right -- she does sound pretty stupid! I wonder what she will screw up next?!"

Just then a blood-curdling SCREEEEEEEEEEEEAM issues forth the end of the corridor!

"Oh NOOO!" Dr. Jones exclaims, as he goes running down the hallway.

"What's the matter?" Dr. Smith calls out.

Dr. Jones yells over his shoulder as he continues running down the hall, "I told Nurse Nelda to prick Mr. Connor's boil!"

I loved Flip Wilson playing Gearldene ,

I loved Carol Burnett also...and I hate to say it but also Sonny & Cher, Donny & Marie, Red Skelton. You just don't get entertainment like that any more and it is something that TV desperately needs instead of all the crime, police, reality TV shows that flood the airwaves now.

Gary

Gary, I think we watched the same shows, and I agree with you whole heartedly about today's programming. I would love to see a least one good variety show come back. David, thanks so much for posting that link, I watched several of those shows last night and laughed out loud. I don't think Madame's show played in Peoria, at least I don't remember it, nor did I know Bea Arthur did variety show appearances, loved the Sista Love video, and Rock never looked better! That must've been just a few years before his well publicized "Dynasty" appearance.

This thread is bringing back a lot of fond memories of the old variety shows. Like vacuums, lawn mowers, cars, and practically EVERYTHING else, they sure don't make 'em like that any more. And it's too bad, too, because the old variety shows had something for EVERYONE!
And here's a few more--remember Hollywood Palace, Jackie Gleason, Jonathan Winters, and Dean Martin's show? And who could forget Arthur Godfrey, or Ed Sullivan's "rilly big shoe?" Some folks just remember Jackie Gleason in the Honeymooners, but I remember his variety show in the 60's real well, and his characters such as "the poor soul" and "Joe the Bartender," where he used to feature Frank Fontaine as "Crazy Gugenheim."
Remember the little kid character Jonathan Winters used to do on his show? I could do that one real well when I was in Jr. high, and once in 8th grade history class, just before class started, the kids were yelling for me to do Jonathan Winters. Just when I got to the part where he says "I get goosebumps allllllll over my body" the teacher walked in and said, "you'll get something else all over your body if you don't shut up!!" Obviously she had no sense of humor!
One thing I'm wondering about though, is when did Madam have her own show? I remember seeing her every week on Solid Gold, but I don't remember a Madam show. Could someone refresh my memory?
Jeff

Well, it is time to see a little fun around here again so Helen Lawson is back, bigger and better than ever! If you don't like camp, leave this thread now.

I've been going through some archives of when Ida Corwin and I did television in the 1960's. This first picture is a publicity still when we were launching our show, "This Ain't Our First Time At The Rodeo." The title did not catch on right away and the writers had to come up with something else.

I'm on the left and Ida is on the right. During the shooting, we were singing, "Lord help the mister that comes between me and my sister and Lord help the sister that comes between me and my man!"

We began filming when our option was picked up. In this famous scene, Ida and I were reciting the fabulous lines the writers had created.

It went something like this........."Something with posion in it------but attactive the eye and pleasant to the smell----poppies, poppies will put them to sleep---ssllleeeep!"

We had no idea that MGM would steal that line and use it later in a vehicle that our own Maggie Hamilton would star in. But, Ida and I do look ravishing don't we?

Stirring a cauldron!

But you get the drift - how appropriate for the season too. Me and Helen.

Ida

May remember that earlier in life I was a graduate of Gupton-Jones College of Mortuary Science making me a licensed Funeral Director and Embalmer.

Here is my first ambulance call! (The deceased was a despicable woman named "Kay Couper." Some one had dropped a house on her.) What a day and wonderful memory.

Now who as that Aunt again? Esther? No that doesn't sound right. Ernestine? No, that's not it either. Eleanor? No, that was a Roosevelt.

Oh well, she must not be that missed anyway. Nice manicure too.

I'll never forget this day when Ida showed up on the set. We were contract players then. Her hair and makeup people had not even begun yet.

What a sweet young thing!

Later, after make up and hair were called in, Ida was ready for her first take on the set.

Then it was time for a costume and make up change. Lunch was over and we started to shoot the next scene.

Love that up-do!

Helen and Ida saying our goodbyes to our friends in St. Louis after the convention was over. Everybody was all smiles!

On the Set - What a Babe!!

a memory of my childhood. Don't go to this site if you are the "vanilla" or "milktoast" type. The sights and sounds may be too much for you. Alas, my youth..............

Sorry, I don't know how to post this site and make it an instant link. However, maybe you will see why I turned out the way I did.

Helen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MmoJ5Vuf0E

Really,mother. Weren't the pies enough?

The name of my new bakery is going to be, "Aren't The Pies Bad Enough?"

Only the enlightened will be buying from me, I'm sure. Some of us are more evolved you know.

I was amazed at how art imitates life. Here I was watching Sunset Blvd not too long ago, you know with Gloria S. and I see that they used your Isotta Fraschini in the movie mirroring that thread in the film where all Mr. Demille wanted from poor Norma (played by Gloria) was her car as a film prop.

"I remember you........you used to be big in pictures."

"I AM BIG.........the pictures got small."

Where do you think our nickname for our dear friend "Veda" came from?

Mother you are just too rash-sha-sahy!

Veda goes berserk...............and more.

BE WARNED: youths, "vanilla", milktoast, class seekers and camp horrified, stay away from this post and the website address posted below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHieVOmNNP4

I am so happy that you are back Charlie!!! I have missed you. Looking forward to more adventures of Ida and Helen!!

thats ok lot of "family on here as I found out
,not to manny streight men into collecting vacuums,they are more into things like; muscle cars,,,motorcycles,,,shotguns,,,hunting trophys,,,football items,,,and the like,
I like those things I mentioned above,plus I collect old gas engines like this one.....

you haven't met very many gay men have you .... they are not all "flaming femmies" like Jack on "Will and Grace" and in fact most are not.

Some of the most rugged, masculine "manly men" you will ever meet are gay. What about one of the most famous gay men in history (albeit in the closet while he was alive) -- Rock Hudson.

There are many openly gay pro athletes past and present, even in that most manly of sports, football. Frank Jackson, Greg Congdon, Esera Tualo, Ed Gallagher and Jerry Smith come to mind; and of course David Kopay, the first professional football player to shock the world when he came out of the closet in the early 1970s.

In European football, there's Paul Scholes and Mark Bingham [the gay rugby player who helped bring down Flight 93 before it hit the U.S. Capitol], along with many others.

Name the sport - there are gay men playing. And there are many gay men who are into cars, motorcycles, guns and hunting.

And what of those two hopelessly rugged gents in "Brokeback Mountain" ??

It's bad enough when heterosexual people draw these stereotypes of gay people; even worse when gays themselves draw them and perpetuate them. (See very amusing link below)

Not, of course, to overlook the fact that there ARE plenty of "pouffers" in the gay community ... I guess this forum is a ripe example of "camping gone wild" isn't it! My point is that ALL gay men do not swish and flit and have rubber wrists!

Now excuse me while I hop on my '72 Harley to go vacuum my hunting lodge. I need to remember to bring the dusting brush to tidy up the gun rack and hunting trophies, and some saddle soap to freshen up my collection of vintage pro footballs!

Well ... maybe that's a bit of a stretch .... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!

I definitely agree with you. My partner and I do not belong to the flamer category. My partner loves sports especially hockey, football, baseball, guns and hunting, fishing, etc. I on the other hand can do without all that....but I am not a flamer. We both can camp it up when required, or not.


Gary

An important item of note---the is a HUGE difference between flaming and camping. I think of flamers such as Paul Lynde, Charles Nelson Riley, Rip Taylor, Richard Simmons, etc.

Campers, (regardless of sexual orientation) to me would be: Bugs Bunny, Jack Benny, Milton Berle, Bob Hope, Tony Randall, Bea Arthur, Dr. Smith, the Robot, etc.

Gay folk come in a smorgasbord of personalities just like the straight world and how boring would it be if we were all alike?

There is a school of thought in psychology that puts forth the idea that the more comfortable you are with all the extremes in the Gay world, the more comfortable you are with your own "Gayness". On the other hand the same applies to your level of uncomfortableness with your accepting of who you are.

Definitions of camp include:

An affectaton or appreciation of manners and taste commonly thought to be artificial, vulgar or banal.


Banality, vulgarity, or artificality when deliberately affected or WHEN APPRECIATED FOR ITS HUMOR.

"Camp is popularity plus vulgarity plus innocence"-- Indra Jahalani

perfect explanation. in addition, many DO speak of "flamers" or "queens" as if its some horrible thing. in my experience flaming queens are some of the most fearless and uninhibited people you will ever meet. suspect the conservative, "straight acting" queens who put flamers down are, within themselves, jealous of the fearlessness they lack.

"straight acting" has to be one of the most unfortunate ways of describing oneself.

Ten years ago, I was appointed by a judge in a guardianship/conservatorship matter to look after the interests of a man who was terminally ill with AIDS. There was a fight going on between his partner and his family. I was to determine what his interests were and report back to the Court.

I had two recommendations:

1. I recommended that his partner was the proper person to be handling his affairs and the family should respect that.
2. I recommended that his partner, and the AIDS Project volunteers, figure out when to flame and when not to flame.

The nurses reported to me that when his mom and sister from Iowa would come to visit him in the hospital, his partner and friends would turn up the flame – making them very uncomfortable. There was a real rocky history to the relationship between him and his partner and there were times that mom came to his aid when he had to throw his partner out. So, I really did not think that the problem was so much one of intolerance as it was concern about her son’s welfare. Anyway, whether his family was intolerant or not, mom is still mom and her son was dying. I thought they should work harder to respect the office (of mother), if not the person.

P.S. I am not sure if the “flame” term is being used correctly here, but at the time, everyone seemed to understand what I was saying.

"...flaming queens are some of the most fearless and uninhibited people you will ever meet. suspect the conservative, "straight acting" queens who put flamers down are, within themselves, jealous of the fearlessness they lack...."

---

By following that line of thinking, one could also assert the converse ------- that the big flamers do so out of a different flavor of insecurity --- needing to be over the top and drawing everyone's attention to mask their low self-esteem and insecurity. Why else, one might ask, would there be the need to "act out" so outrageously ?!'

One could suggest that the more "low key" (e.g. "straight acting") people are that way because they ARE in touch with who they are -- ARE comfortable with their sexuality -- and thus don't need to over-compensate for their self-doubt by flaunting the aspects of their personal life for all the world to see.

Point? We could endlessly analyze one another's behaviors and rationalize our modes as being "more honest" while dismissing others' as being "more phony" when they don't measure up to our acceptable level of "flamingness?"

How 'bout "we just agree to get along with one another and accept our differences without saying one way is better than the other...?

Just a morsel or two of "food for thought" in the spirit of this very off-topic discussion.......

Sign me...

"Fairly Straight Acting Yet Fairly Fearless"